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Old 06-12-2018, 10:00 AM
 
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The most important factor when it comes to alternative energies is whether it can be run thru a meter or not. This impacts if the public will even be aware of it, or if its best to suppress it.
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Old 06-12-2018, 11:53 AM
 
2,011 posts, read 800,347 times
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Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
The most important factor when it comes to alternative energies is whether it can be run thru a meter or not. This impacts if the public will even be aware of it, or if its best to suppress it.
Coffers got to get paid one way or another. think is the main reason why most if not all states require power to every house and a meter, even if they are "off-grid'.

Remember a news story a while back that owners wanted completely off grid and state dept went in and took their kids away. Because of lack of power, when in fact they had power solar/wind with batteries and doing just fine. Meter mean ruin their day and reported that they were living in squabble conditions, when they really wasnt. And now even if you wanted to get off the grid, you got state laws preventing you from doing that.. They want that 10-20 dollar month from you just to have a meter at your house.
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by hitpausebutton2 View Post
Coffers got to get paid one way or another. think is the main reason why most if not all states require power to every house and a meter, even if they are "off-grid'.

Remember a news story a while back that owners wanted completely off grid and state dept went in and took their kids away. Because of lack of power, when in fact they had power solar/wind with batteries and doing just fine. Meter mean ruin their day and reported that they were living in squabble conditions, when they really wasnt. And now even if you wanted to get off the grid, you got state laws preventing you from doing that.. They want that 10-20 dollar month from you just to have a meter at your house.
Yes, unfortunately that is the way of the world, if these large industries were not needed anymore, it would cause a domino effect on the economy, so its really up there on the level of national security...for there NOT to be anything 'too good' that comes along.

I truly believe battery technology has been suppressed due to this very reason. the Invention Secrecy Act was created in 1951 and still in force today! This is EXACTLY the kind of thing this act was created for...to ensure something 'too good' doesnt become available to the public, its absolutely crazy!
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Old 06-13-2018, 09:34 AM
 
9,182 posts, read 5,625,609 times
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Originally Posted by prosperity4all View Post
shouldn't we have more effective ways of harnessing solar power now because

Approximately 12000 TW (terrawatts) of energy

reaches the Earth from the Sun.

That is 1200000000000000 joules per minute

More energy reaches the earth from the sun in one day

than the whole world uses in one year.
That energy is hard to store, thwarted by clouds, and the existing energy competitors are paying off politicians to keep them from providing cheap and clean energy.
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Old 06-13-2018, 10:26 AM
 
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Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
anyone care to estimate how much energy related technology was/ is being suppressed under the invention secrecy act of 1951, or due to threat to national security/ economy?
3?
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Old Yesterday, 12:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LifeIsGood01 View Post
3?
100's
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Old Yesterday, 01:15 PM
 
9,182 posts, read 5,625,609 times
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Originally Posted by prosperity4all View Post
shouldn't we have more effective ways of harnessing solar power now because

Approximately 12000 TW (terrawatts) of energy

reaches the Earth from the Sun.

That is 1200000000000000 joules per minute

More energy reaches the earth from the sun in one day

than the whole world uses in one year.
It's been reaching the earth for billions of years not just now.

The problem is a cheap way to capture it and store it.
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Old Yesterday, 01:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
You cannot lower the capital investment in the traditional plants because when the sun is not shining and the wind is not blowing those conventional plants are required to meet demand. I'm not so sure why this is so difficult to understand. When it's 0 degrees out in the Northeast or 100+ degrees in the Southwest power demand is at it's highest and you can't just roll the dice and hope the sun is shining.
Not really true. It appears pretty likely now that the fully loaded cost of solar will get below the variable cost of fossil fuel. As that happens you actually drive the cost of fossil fuel upward due to lower utilization.

That will all vastly change the cost calculations and will likely change the preference for fossil plants to low capital cost plants with higher operating cost...gas turbine plants would be an example. But nuclear and clean coal would be hopeless.

Eventually we will see storage that works...a very low cost of generation will help. You can use rather inefficient technology if the cost of generation is low enough. And generation of hydrogen by some version of electrolysis becomes workable if the electric cost gets low enough.

So we are riding on a rapidly changing world. Going to be fun to see how it all turns out.
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Old Today, 06:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Not really true.

And how do you propose supplying power to the Northeast when we have an event like we did this last winter when you had coal, nuclear and gas plants running at capacity nearly constantly for more than a week. Your capacity and storage requirements go through the roof and at the ned of the day you are throwing the dice that capacity and storage is enough.



They don't even have the gas infrastructure to accommodate this. Back in 2014 they were bordering on disaster because there is only so much supply of gas in the pipes. Because of a combination of closure of coal plants and increased demand across the board for domestic, industry and power plants they pushed the supply to it's limits. They have addressed this short term by making the power plants dual fuel, they have onsite storage of oil which they were using this past winter.
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Old Today, 06:46 PM
 
9,216 posts, read 3,056,164 times
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Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
And how do you propose supplying power to the Northeast when we have an event like we did this last winter when you had coal, nuclear and gas plants running at capacity nearly constantly for more than a week. Your capacity and storage requirements go through the roof and at the ned of the day you are throwing the dice that capacity and storage is enough.



They don't even have the gas infrastructure to accommodate this. Back in 2014 they were bordering on disaster because there is only so much supply of gas in the pipes. Because of a combination of closure of coal plants and increased demand across the board for domestic, industry and power plants they pushed the supply to it's limits. They have addressed this short term by making the power plants dual fuel, they have onsite storage of oil which they were using this past winter.
Of course you have to deal with reality. What happens now is you maintain the existing fossil capability. But it is of course less and less cost effective as you lower its utilization with cheaper solar or wind. So over time you bring in gas and gas plants to replace fossil capacity as it ages out.

As time goes on the fossil plants become less and less competitive. The consumer still has to pay for them due to the need to cover the cost of assets owned by the utilities. But the replacement assets become low capital cost gas and perhaps long haul power lines. I am not suggestion long haul makes sense yet but it may in time as the south and midwest scale up.

And if solar does get below $.02 per kwh we may end up with a simple solution to the storage problem. Start making hydrogen.

And it is possible we may eventually see workable battery storage. Particularly possilbe if the cost of solar gets cheap enough.
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