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Old Yesterday, 04:57 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
1,214 posts, read 473,448 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post

And anywhere in the SW sun belt can produce 500 kwhours in a year from a good one meter array. And it is, in time, likely to get twice as good as that.

But most of the world isn't in the SW sun belt.


And there's plenty of fresh water too, IF you live on the shores of L Michigan..
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Old Yesterday, 08:49 AM
 
9,330 posts, read 3,098,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
But most of the world isn't in the SW sun belt.


And there's plenty of fresh water too, IF you live on the shores of L Michigan..
Most of the country can produce reasonable solar results. It is not going to be very good in Rochester NY in the winter time. But 8 or 9 months of the year you will get a reasonable response. And there are lots of places in the Midwest where wind will work well. So the solution may vary from place to place.

And it will get a lot better as the storage problem is solved. And cheap solar will help with that.

And there is more than enough water in the desert southwest if we decide not to use most of it for growing crops watered cheaply in California.
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Old Yesterday, 03:56 PM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
1,214 posts, read 473,448 times
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Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
So the solution may vary from place to place.

.

Exactly.


Solar/wind is a valuable tool in the toolbox of power supply, but it is a niche solution. Hoping to use them as the sole replacement for fossil fuel/nuclear is a pipe dream rating right up there with The Perpetual Motion Machine & The Philosopher's Stone.



The numbers just don't work out unless a storage solution that rivals fossil fuel/nuclear in energy density is found, and the existing paradigms for storage of electricity don't seem capable of achieving that. We'll need a whole new technology.
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Old Yesterday, 06:41 PM
 
9,330 posts, read 3,098,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Exactly.


Solar/wind is a valuable tool in the toolbox of power supply, but it is a niche solution. Hoping to use them as the sole replacement for fossil fuel/nuclear is a pipe dream rating right up there with The Perpetual Motion Machine & The Philosopher's Stone.



The numbers just don't work out unless a storage solution that rivals fossil fuel/nuclear in energy density is found, and the existing paradigms for storage of electricity don't seem capable of achieving that. We'll need a whole new technology.
Not really. At the cost that are being achieved for solar you duplicate the capability of your fossil fuel plants and run it whenever it can be run. For the majority of the country that will be more than half the time. The of course drives the utilization of fossil plants to less than 50 percent which greatly increases their fully loaded cost.

And that will cause new looks at how to reduce the capital cost of fossil plants likely further increasing the advantage of gas over coal or oil.

Eventually we will solve the storage problem. And simply making solar electricity cheaper will aid in that battle. If for instance you can get the cost of solar electricity low enough you can simply make hydrogen. That is still not an efficient process but if electricity is cheap enough it may work. And there are all sorts of efforts to make the process more efficient.

Cheap enough electricity may also allow battery storage solutions to become cost effective. Low efficiency is not a problem if the source is cheap enough. It is also possible that one of the solid electrolyte solutions may work out. That would of course increase the energy density of the battery solution by a factor greater than two and could likely make storage in each home practical. Now that really leads to a revolution.

You know if I were running a power utility in any of the sunnier part of the country I would be getting into roof top solar in a big way. They can offer the systems to their customers at well less than the roof top industry can. And if they are clever about it they can integrate the roof top arrays into their system with automatic controls to keep the whole thing going smoothly. Makes a lot more sense than having the roof top guys eventually figure out how to cut the hook up.
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Old Yesterday, 07:36 PM
 
36,274 posts, read 37,007,273 times
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Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Most of the country can produce reasonable solar results. It is not going to be very good in Rochester NY in the winter time. But 8 or 9 months of the year you will get a reasonable response.

It's when those other 3 or 4 months when you are likely to break records. In any event regardless of the location unless it's the Atcama desert there is no predictability.
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Old Today, 02:30 PM
 
2,067 posts, read 822,473 times
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dont we have wave generators as well.. Microsoft uses them for offshore datacenters
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