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Old 11-10-2018, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
16,988 posts, read 51,777,199 times
Reputation: 28053

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Make that "all," AFAIK. There are no US bottleries that run from their own wells. So when you buy a bottle of Dasani or Aquafina, you are buying local tap water that (1) has been run through the plant's purifying process but (2) has no additives yet is (3) priced the same as a Coke or Pepsi.

Dasani came into being because of a Coke VP who felt bad about selling sugary drinks. He did not, however, feel any shame at charging a 60-80,000 percent markup on his healthy alternative.
Please do a cursory search prior to making such a sweeping generalization. There was a small bottler in Vermont that was getting in trouble from the trucking traffic between its well/spring and its bottling plant. It appears some of Nestle's springs may be private: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...awsuit-claims/ (BTW, the original Poland Spring water was HORRIBLE tasting. I remember tasting it as a kid and thinking that Mainers were weird.
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Old 11-10-2018, 08:15 AM
 
Location: USA
13,975 posts, read 7,550,442 times
Reputation: 10127
We have centuries of fossil fuel, and finding more U.S. domestic, accessible reserves all the time. It is so plentiful, it can be considered "renewable".
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Old 11-10-2018, 08:55 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
1,817 posts, read 678,230 times
Reputation: 3676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Cleric View Post
The term was originated by a man in the oil industry itself, and also subscribed to by energy and financial market analysts.

Yes, Hubbert was an oil man who knew some math. He published before The North Sea, The Mex Gulf or the Alaskan N Slope oil fields were known. Will there be more discovered? Chissa?




Almost all growth phenomena follow a sigmoid shaped graph: slow at first, then very rapid, then slowing again as the low hanging fruit becomes exploited. Hubbert merely graphed the derivative of the sigmoid curve-- giving us his famous "pimple." Pretty simple, first yr calculus.




We don't really know how much oil we have at present because the info has strategic implications and they're trying to keep the real numbers a secret.





Quote:
Originally Posted by RichCapeCod View Post
If you want an adventure, read up on Abiotic oil (oil -- hydrocarbons really) is not from decayed organic matter, but is a naturally produced substance. The Russians are big into this theory.

Again, nothing miraculous. If you took Organic Chem in college, you probably synthesized some simple alkanes in lab. Octane is the 8-carbon alkane.


Two problems: it takes more energy to manufacture alkanes than you get out of them when you burn them. That may make sense if you're Germany in WW II when you were cut off from the oil fields, but you wouldn't have been able to keep it up long.


Secondly-- our current oil supply was formed as untold of millions & millions of acres of swampy plants growing & trapping solar energy over the course of millions of yrs died and slowly, partially decomposed under anoxic conditions. We are poised on the brink of having completely burned them all up in just a few centuries....Where are we gunna grow enough algae to reproduce that amount of photosynthesis in a short period of time?...Ain't gunna happen. Interesting concept, but simple arithmetic & geomtry tells you it can't be done efficiently enough to replace natural petroleum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
Once CO2 in the air gets to 450ppm? or 500ppm? and the effects of climate change become so pronounced and deadly, international consensus will be reached to make it illegal to extract oil, except for small amounts needed for non-combustion purposes, like certain chemicals and lubricants. I'll guess around 2050-2100. Lots of oil will be stranded and left underground.

a)Please show evidence that co2 actually does cause GW.
b)Please show evidence that rising co2 levels is really Man-made.
c)Please show evidence that we really can lower co2 levels.
d) Please show evidence that a warming planet is actually bad.


No such evidence exists. All the crap you hear is imagined and announced with disclaimers "maybe," "perhaps" and "possibly." All the "proof" is from computer models programmed to spit out the politically correct result.


BTW- virtually no more warming will occur as [co2] rises above 450ppm. The energy trapping curve approaches an asymptote above ~450ppm. Nothing to see here, Libs-- back in your Fantasyland.


Unrestrained use of fossil fuels has provided Mankind with amazing improvement in health, wealth and happiness. Starvation now only occurs in regions of political unrest. Poverty has been reduced by 75% worldwide over the last 40 yrs. Standard of living in general continues to improve. Curtailing petroleum use will hit the poorest among us first. Are you ready to force your idea of justice on themt?

Last edited by guidoLaMoto; 11-10-2018 at 09:03 AM..
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Old 11-10-2018, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,611 posts, read 1,229,899 times
Reputation: 4977
Wow, look at that. You CAN get ten pounds of BS in a five-pound bag.
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Old 11-10-2018, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,611 posts, read 1,229,899 times
Reputation: 4977
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
Please do a cursory search prior to making such a sweeping generalization.
I cop that the highlighted phrase is too limiting, but in context, we're talking about the big brand-name, vanilla-unflavored water from the big bottleries. Of course "spring water" is from wells, but I'd wager that no significant percentage of Aquafina or Dasani is from any source but a municipal water system. They don't make Coke/Pepsi from spring water - although I suppose it is well water in some smaller areas - and all those water brands are is water diverted from the sody-pop process before anything much is added.
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Old 11-10-2018, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,611 posts, read 1,229,899 times
Reputation: 4977
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichCapeCod View Post
If you want an adventure, read up on Abiotic oil (oil -- hydrocarbons really) is not from decayed organic matter, but is a naturally produced substance. The Russians are big into this theory.
Yeah, Tommy Gold lives. And the Russians clung to Lamarckism so long it set them back forty years in the genetics field.
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Old 11-17-2018, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Northern Maine
9,567 posts, read 14,408,015 times
Reputation: 9072
99.5% of "greenhouse gasses" is water vapor. The environmental industry is quibbling over that tiny portion of one half of one percent of greenhouse gasses that we use for energy. Krkatoa and Pinatubo put more greenhose gasses into the atmosphere in two natural events than all the coal that was ever mined.

Much of this is politics.Pnnsylvania is producing large amounts of natural gas and oil from "dead wells" because of fracturing rock to allow these products to flow. New York will not allow such prosperity in their state.
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Old 11-17-2018, 10:26 AM
 
6,918 posts, read 1,679,767 times
Reputation: 4930
Quote:
Originally Posted by irman View Post
When we find a way to replace engines (powered by gasoline) with motors (powered by electricity), we still need some oil for lubrication, so we will always have a need for some oil.

Maybe we will find a way to reduce friction by some other way than oil someday?

Movement of people and cargo by "flight without the need for oil" is, in my opinion, a pipe dream for at least a very long time!. The size of a "drone" to move a certain amount of weight today is out of proportions now known! They would be so huge, there is just not enough room to do it!

I have not seen any discovery yet of people knowing how to control gravity!
I disagree, we need to get away from 'brute force' methods of propulsion, there are other alternatives, although some are not able to be 'run thru a meter', so its easy to understand why they are suppressed.


Teslas 'Wardencliffe towers are a great example.
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Old 11-17-2018, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,611 posts, read 1,229,899 times
Reputation: 4977
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Teslas 'Wardencliffe towers are a great example.
Of a fundamental misunderstanding of physics, and mental illness, yes.
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Old 11-17-2018, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
16,988 posts, read 51,777,199 times
Reputation: 28053
"Tesla's 'Wardencliffe towers are a great example."

No. Wardencliffe was early technology headed in a direction of complete disaster on a few fronts. It was doomed from the start. I know there are nuts out there that claim "longitudinal waves" and such nonsense, but those fall in the realm of snake oil. Wardencliffe was a brute force manipulation of the radio spectrum. Had it continued, it would have effectively disabled exploration and use of radio and broadcast television. Then there are the possible effects it might have had upon the Earth's natural shield against solar storms.

Some technologies are suppressed by economics and industry, true. Often though, the technology is simply not yet ready for prime time or has other problems. Hybrid gas/electric cars were made in the 1970s using such cobbled together parts as jet engine starter motors and marine batteries. The concept worked, the execution was poor. Wood-gas cars still crop up from time to time. The toxic tar filtered out of the gas is a real issue, as well as the issues of bridging and long ramp-up times and low power output.

There is an ongoing desire to find "free energy." Chances of finding it are nil. However, it is sobering to remember that crossing the United States took months before railroads, industry was powered by water wheels that had only a few horsepower of output, and a farmer was maxed out taking care of a 40 acre farm. Compared to the past, energy is so much more available for use and cheap that to our ancestors it would be considered free.
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