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Old 06-28-2019, 07:42 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
16,599 posts, read 28,748,573 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
It's interesting that people who claim to have science and knowledge on their side are so afraid of people they don't agree with to the point of venomous name calling and suppression of the other people's basic right to believe in whatever they want.

I am more worried about these people than the flat-earth people.
That is true, of course. We all believe on one thing or another. Some of us believe in God, some others don't, some of us believe in nature, some others don't, some believe the earth is flat, but others don't, some believe in big foot, or in UFOs, while others don't believe on anything nor they care. But the fact is that for fairness sake, I can't just bring myself to condemn one group of people because of their beliefs, and ignore my own beliefs along the beliefs of other people (or groups of people). What is the harm on letting others believe what they want?

But some people must curb the beliefs of others, without considering that they too have their own sets of beliefs. Beliefs by themselves aren't harmful, but trying to squash others who don't believe the same one does may be more harmful than not. Besides that, the way each one of us leads one's life speaks a lot more than words. If the person is not harming anybody, I don't concern myself with his or her beliefs, regardless of how much my desires are to change that person to adopt my beliefs. It's a lot more beneficial for one to "see" the good and honest things others do, instead of "seeing" or looking for faults.

Last edited by RayinAK; 06-28-2019 at 08:11 PM..
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Old 06-28-2019, 07:56 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
16,599 posts, read 28,748,573 times
Reputation: 12357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
I think you're going out of your way to miss/argue the point.

Belief, in and of itself, is an entirely personal thing subject to no control other than what happens to people who believe stupid things (like, they can drive just fine with a BAC of .25, or don't need to vaccinate their children, or don't need "radioactive" smoke detectors in their house).

Belief as it is used to influence common goals and practices can be immensely damaging (as in when a jurisdiction bans childhood vaccination).

Do you really not grasp the difference?
I don think I have strayed from the subject, since this thread is about the "craziness and stupidity..." of the flat-earthers for believing they way the do. For some reason several of you are demeaning them in numerous ways, including saying that they are harmful. Vaccination is an entirely a different set of circumstances, and the same for some religions where blood transfusions aren't welcomed, or just the ones who believe in climate change versus the ones that believe it is a natural sequence of events. Science will persuade some, but not all.

Since you are quite smart, how can you even think that "...people who believe in such things..." are goin to persuade you to believe in what they do? If I try to sell you The Brooklyn Bridge, are just going to buy it from me? If I tell you to jump from a tall building, are you going to do that?

If I bring myself to condemn the "flat earthers" because of their beliefs, should I condemn all religious people because of their beliefs? There are a myriad sets of beliefs, everywhere you look into, even love and hate. I don't believe the earth is flat, but it does not mean that those who do are stupid while I am "smart." For me to do otherwise, even with all my personal faults, would amount to an injustice.

Last edited by RayinAK; 06-28-2019 at 08:14 PM..
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Old 06-28-2019, 08:33 PM
 
28,230 posts, read 39,866,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post
I just don't don't understand it. What harm is it being done to the rest of us by the people who believe that the earth is flat ?



Breeding ignorance harms everyone.
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Old 06-28-2019, 09:28 PM
 
20,520 posts, read 16,599,446 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post
Exactly right. But you can't just blame one set of beliefs and ignore the rest. Well, you can in fact blame one group and ignore the rest, because there is nothing wrong with that. I just don't. By the way, there are laws to protect others from harm, so don't believe for a minute that harm is not punishable by law once the "harm" becomes an act.
I’m not “blaming” any group nor am I separating this group out. Someone asked me what the harm is in could possibly come from people putting forth theories that contradict truth, science and fact, and I answered. I didn’t single them out, I said groups like this are part of a larger war on truth and facts that IMO is harmful and even dangerous.
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Old 06-28-2019, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
16,599 posts, read 28,748,573 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tek_Freek View Post
Breeding ignorance harms everyone.
Good-sounding quote, but in reality breeding ignorance is only the concern of those involved. How is it going to affect you if you don't believe in such ignorance? Not all of us have the same beliefs. The "flat-earthers" haven't persuaded you to join them. Have they?

It is the same for any type of belief, even religion, in that if you don't want to be a "believer," you won't be regardless of how much they preach to you.
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Old 06-28-2019, 10:11 PM
 
639 posts, read 291,954 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post
Why should you condemn one set of beliefs over the rest? Are "flatearthers" committing a crime for believing that the earth is flat?
No, they are not committing a crime but perhaps I am noticing something that has not been well discussed here. If you come back to my comments, you will realize that I mentioned the word "scam". Spreading a lie through youtube is not illegal. However I do know that some individuals are taking advantage making money from all this topic. I am not sure how this topic is being managed or ruled in the US but I do know about a specific case, here in Spain, of a guy who is selling a book about this "theory" and accepting donations through his youtube channel, even travelling to Latin America earning a fair amount of money through conferences among selling his book and his youtube channel. Should we agree that this is at least unethical, isn't it? I am not a lawyer so I can't tell you if this is illegal. Hopefully someone can explain me if these activities mentioned can be considered illegal.
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Old 06-28-2019, 11:48 PM
 
28,230 posts, read 39,866,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post
Good-sounding quote, but in reality breeding ignorance is only the concern of those involved. How is it going to affect you if you don't believe in such ignorance? Not all of us have the same beliefs. The "flat-earthers" haven't persuaded you to join them. Have they?

It is the same for any type of belief, even religion, in that if you don't want to be a "believer," you won't be regardless of how much they preach to you.
Interesting argument, but if children listen to this, or it's part of a conversation between their parents, siblings, and their friends they are being brainwashed.

Breeding ignorance.

My being affected has nothing to do with it. I'm not that damn stupid. But the children of these people have no real choice in the matter.

The quote isn't "good sounding". It's solid.
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Old 06-28-2019, 11:56 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
16,599 posts, read 28,748,573 times
Reputation: 12357
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
I’m not “blaming” any group nor am I separating this group out. Someone asked me what the harm is in could possibly come from people putting forth theories that contradict truth, science and fact, and I answered. I didn’t single them out, I said groups like this are part of a larger war on truth and facts that IMO is harmful and even dangerous.
And I have been saying that I don't see any harm being done by those who believe that the earth is flat or not.
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Old 06-29-2019, 12:00 AM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
16,599 posts, read 28,748,573 times
Reputation: 12357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tek_Freek View Post
Interesting argument, but if children listen to this, or it's part of a conversation between their parents, siblings, and their friends they are being brainwashed.

Breeding ignorance.

My being affected has nothing to do with it. I'm not that damn stupid. But the children of these people have no real choice in the matter.

The quote isn't "good sounding". It's solid.
But you have to take into considerations that most children spend more time in the classroom each day than they spend talking to their parents. And at home they are playing games on their game machines, surfing the net, and watching whatever TV show or movie their parents let them watch. Just imagine what the children of working parents do at home. A great portion of the children are being educated by the TV, and Internet (computers, tablets, and cellphones). And don't believe for a minute that even at school they aren't being brain-washed by some of the teachers. That's the way it is these days.

The government cannot "just" step into the homes of the "flat-earthers" and order them to stop telling their children that the earth is flat.

But the main point I have been trying to make is that if I was going to condemn only a portion of the population because of their beliefs, then I should not ignore other sectors of the population who believe in other things. To the "flat-earthters" the earth is flat. That's truth to them. To a religious person God is true. If you don't believe in God, why should you condemn a religious person for his of her beliefs?

Last edited by RayinAK; 06-29-2019 at 12:23 AM..
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Old 06-29-2019, 12:52 AM
 
1,949 posts, read 954,857 times
Reputation: 5221
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Churches are packed every Sunday but you are astonished at how people can believe the earth is flat.
This, lol. I find the idea of a magical dude in the sky who made us from clay equally ridiculous, but people pick and choose their follies.
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