U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Science and Technology
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-30-2019, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,555 posts, read 3,001,676 times
Reputation: 12760

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorge ChemE View Post
The Drake equation is factorial and fairly simple.
Yes, I already said that.

it's coming up with any meaningful value for its factors that makes it useless.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-30-2019, 09:51 AM
 
5,111 posts, read 2,309,561 times
Reputation: 14673
One answer to the paradox:


The extraterrestrials are already here, and they're Hungarians.


Think about it:


- Extremely high average intelligence
- Odd language no one else can speak
- Most of the key atomic scientists who made the key breakthroughs were Hungarians born in the same neighborhood in Budapest




https://ezinearticles.com/?Hollywood...e-US&id=758161
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-30-2019, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,555 posts, read 3,001,676 times
Reputation: 12760
Quote:
Originally Posted by turf3 View Post
The extraterrestrials are already here, and they're Hungarians.
Good enough fermi.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-30-2019, 11:00 AM
 
10,509 posts, read 2,683,290 times
Reputation: 7143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorge ChemE View Post
The Drake equation is factorial and fairly simple. It could have been improved by adding some terms to improve it's accuracy. I see Drake equation as the equivalent of Order of Magnitude Estimate (ROM estimate) in cost project engineering. The main problem is that as far as I know we can't estimate some terms of the equation such as "ne", "fl" and "fi". Because the error range of its result "N" would be somewhat huge, I would be happy to at least analyze if the result "N" is greater than 0, because N~0 would means that there are no extraterrestrial civilizations to set up communication with and N>0 would means that there are extraterrestrial civilizations to set up communication with. How can we study the meaning of this result easier? If N~0, then one of the factors drops to 0, let's say 1E-20 for example. Summarizing, to give an estimate that there are extraterrestrial civilizations to set up communication with them, none of the factors should drop to 0, that would give N>0, but of course, the exact number is anything but accurate, because this is an Order of Magnitude Estimate but at universe scale, the error in the result is huge.
OP, you claim that we have no evidence of their existence, but that is a HUGE leap of faith to be so sure of that...when in reality, we have NO idea what our leaders/military/ intelligence agencies may know about this subject, a lot of this stuff is kept highly classified and thats probably for a good reason!


I dont believe they are actually 'extraterrestrial' though, I think their origin is a lot 'closer to home' so to speak. This is the feeling I have after reading thru numerous reports going back 1000s of years, some even in the B.C. time period too...when your read thru these older sightings, (they are technically not 'UFO reports'), they are just people or groups of people recording things they saw...many of them are EXACTLY the same in descriptions as modern day UFO reports ( I think that is significant)...


It made me wonder, if these were truly some advanced civilization from somewhere else...why has their aircraft and technology remained the same for 1000s of years?


Ultimately though, we (the general public) only has part of the puzzle to base opinions on, we are not privy to see ALL the details, who knows, maybe that would change our opinions?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-30-2019, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,555 posts, read 3,001,676 times
Reputation: 12760
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
...when your read thru these older sightings, (they are technically not 'UFO reports'), they are just people or groups of people recording things they saw...many of them are EXACTLY the same in descriptions as modern day UFO reports ( I think that is significant)...
Yes. It shows that the human tendency to perceive certain kinds of aerial phenomena and force it into known patterns, visual and otherwise, hasn't changed much.

There are saints who described and even painted/drew their visions of stairs leading to heaven. Across many centuries.

And guess what? There's a form of epilepsy that causes sufferers to see zig-zag, stair-like images.

All the things that can be seen and perceived as visual anomalies have been around a long, long time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-30-2019, 11:17 AM
 
10,509 posts, read 2,683,290 times
Reputation: 7143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Yes. It shows that the human tendency to perceive certain kinds of aerial phenomena and force it into known patterns, visual and otherwise, hasn't changed much.

There are saints who described and even painted/drew their visions of stairs leading to heaven. Across many centuries.

And guess what? There's a form of epilepsy that causes sufferers to see zig-zag, stair-like images.

All the things that can be seen and perceived as visual anomalies have been around a long, long time.
That is true...to a certain extent though.


I read one report earlier, this was from China in the 1300s, a group of people saw something that looked like a drum, rise out of the ocean, sit motionless for a few seconds and then shoot off into the sky.


Now, what natural phenomena could possibly explain that?!


I do admit that back in these times, people did in fact mis identify natural things, that they did not understand, but there are others, where this is CLEARLY not whats happening.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-30-2019, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,555 posts, read 3,001,676 times
Reputation: 12760
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
TI read one report earlier, this was from China in the 1300s, a group of people saw something that looked like a drum, rise out of the ocean, sit motionless for a few seconds and then shoot off into the sky.

Now, what natural phenomena could possibly explain that?!
Not really here to get into a case-by-case argument; I'll simply say that between errors of original recording and errors introduced by endless retellings, it can be impossible to say what was seen, how it was actually perceived or whether the event even occurred. A vast number of cases from history such as you cite are, if you run it down, recorded by a monk or scribe on second- or third- or even folklore tellings.

How would a third-hand telling of some fishermen or peasants seeing, say, a small meteor strike in the ocean read, after retelling, polishing and then 'correction' by the scribe?

And it is quite common for modern recountings and collections to distort the actual historical account, either knowingly or through ingrained bias, to make it seem absolutely wondrous and without second possible explanation. See any collection of Nostradamus's prophecies with "interpretations" for hundreds of examples of historical accounts distorted to miraculously match Nossie's babblings. (When it's not actually the translated prophecy that's been fudged to match historical events.)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-30-2019, 12:22 PM
 
1,101 posts, read 589,358 times
Reputation: 3879
Perhaps a handful of civilizations developed some incredibly intelligent individuals, but their societies allowed the equivalent of the movie "Idiocracy" to play out where the stupids bred and passed on their stupid genes while the brainiacs did not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-30-2019, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Maryland
1,762 posts, read 561,837 times
Reputation: 3866
At this point in the conversation it is time to replay this. Yes, it’s old. But it is also very relevant....and if you haven’t heard it before by some chance, it’s also quite humorous.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=gZDjel3dyv0
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-30-2019, 02:34 PM
 
5,258 posts, read 3,309,355 times
Reputation: 6434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itzpapalotl View Post
Putting all of these "theories" aside, it's important to remember that UFO doesn't stand for Alien Flying Object but Unidentified Flying Object. The clue is in the word unidentified.

If one doesn't know what the object is one can't ascribe to it a property of being out of space, when to all intents and purposes there are far likelier explanations. I appreciate that people don't generally like uncertainty but the most rational thing to do in a situation where you don't have any evidence to support the fact is to reserve one's judgement and settle for unidentified.
I wrote the same exact thing in another thread on the Unexplained Mysteries and Paranormal subforum:

That's the thing, a lot of people, including many on C-D, like to use UFO and aliens/extraterrestrials interchangeably. A UFO (Unidentified Flying Object) doesn't have to have alien/extraterrestrial origins.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Science and Technology
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top