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One note worth mentioning. While the collision of tectonic plates does indeed cause the uprising ridges we see as mountain ranges, some, pull plates apart, as can be observed in Iceland (part of the mid-Atlantic system), and others such as in the Mariana Trench, pull downward with one plate sliding under the other and is recycled below the crust.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenTap
It is already being done in MA, but its not being done with dirt...it is being done with water.
It is pretty simple in concept. During the day a nuclear power plant operates and kicks a lot of power onto the grid. That is all well and fine, but at night that plant is producing lots of power that a sleeping nation does not need. So they take that power, drive massive pumps and pump the water from the reservoir at the bottom of the mountain to a reservoir at the top of the mountain.
At peak times of power consumption, they open valves and let that water run down pipes from the top of the mountain to the bottom. And as you guessed it, there is turbines at the bottom that the flowing water powers to make massive amounts of power at a time when the grid really needs it.
The truth is you cannot defy physics. It takes more power to pump that water up hill due to the friction and inefficiencies of pumps, then what can be gleaned out of it falling back down. There is no argument there. But in this case, what if you have lots of power not being utilized at certain times of the day, and yet at other times you have shortages? This system takes a nuclear power plant that must run 24/7/365 and powers a closed system hydro power project for those times when demand is higher then supply. It's inefficient...but a lot less so then not using the power from the nuclear power plant locally.
this method that you mention is totaly diferent than what i'm proposing !!!! my concept gravity conveyer drive turbine method uses gravity to run the conveyers.. or stored elevated mass being rock- dirt sand- gravel -rivers- lakes or anyother mass that is elevated above the conveyer drive method for generating energy..
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the gravity conveyer drive method is not a water wheel !!!! it is a conveyer system that would use stored mass being any mass that is elevated above the conveyer drive system like rock- dirt -sand -gravel- rivers and lakes.. and yes you are right even if it would produce more energy toping a mountain than it would take loading the conveyer drive method it would not last forever but there's millions of cubic miles of elevated terrain and it could last for a long time... and buy us more time to devlop better methods of generating energy.. but if the gravity conveyer drive system were used at dam discharg sites.. it would be using wasted energy and could add thousands of kilowatt hours to a dams overall daily energy power prodution..
some inventor invented a system that uses the waste pressure off of reverse osmosis water treatment systems to turn a turbine and feed the power back into the system... and was able to cut the power consumption by like 30 percent... the method i mentioned is the same premise different method for using wasted dam discharge water and covert it into energy and feed it back into the grid no co2 emissions and very low environmental impact..
and yes!!! if it were used to tear down mountains it would be environmetally bad... but like all concepts you must look at all the bad and the good... google up alberta blue tar sands in canada it's a brutal way to get energy!!!!!
One note worth mentioning. While the collision of tectonic plates does indeed cause the uprising ridges we see as mountain ranges, some, pull plates apart, as can be observed in Iceland (part of the mid-Atlantic system), and others such as in the Mariana Trench, pull downward with one plate sliding under the other and is recycled below the crust.
Yup. Iceland sits on on the mid-Atlantic ridge (as you alluded to), a spreading center, where the North American Plate and the Eurasian Plate diverge. Iceland actually presents a massive opportunity for geothermal power (almost certainly more than is currently employed there), but I guess the real trouble is exporting that power off the island. The Mariana Trench, correct me if I'm wrong, is actually a part of a subduction zone, is it not? I'm not too familiar with the geology of that particular region.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruxan
the gravity conveyer drive method is not a water wheel !!!! it is a conveyer system that would use stored mass being any mass that is elevated above the conveyer drive system like rock- dirt -sand -gravel- rivers and lakes.. and yes you are right even if it would produce more energy toping a mountain than it would take loading the conveyer drive method it would not last forever but there's millions of cubic miles of elevated terrain and it could last for a long time... and buy us more time to devlop better methods of generating energy.. but if the gravity conveyer drive system were used at dam discharg sites.. it would be using wasted energy and could add thousands of kilowatt hours to a dams overall daily energy power prodution..
Perhaps I'm not following your idea then. Virtually all large dams utilize turbines to convert the potential energy of the stored water into usable power. The spillways at said dams are only activated in times of excess runoff. I'm not sure how an added conveyor system would increase power production, unless it was to harness the water discharged through the spillways, but that begs the question "why not just add more turbines?" Assuming turbines are more efficient at power generation than a gravity conveyor system (which, functionally speaking, operates on the same principle as a waterwheel), it would seem more prudent to add turbines that only operate when the spillways are activated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruxan
some inventor invented a system that uses the waste pressure off of reverse osmosis water treatment systems to turn a turbine and feed the power back into the system... and was able to cut the power consumption by like 30 percent... the method i mentioned is the same premise different method for using wasted dam discharge water and covert it into energy and feed it back into the grid no co2 emissions and very low environmental impact..
Sounds great! We should be working to squeeze every drop of power from the resources we already have in place. Though, to be fair, a water treatment plant and a major dam are very different beasts. I'm not saying it couldn't work, but it's a serious engineering project.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruxan
and yes!!! if it were used to tear down mountains it would be environmetally bad... but like all concepts you must look at all the bad and the good... google up alberta blue tar sands in canada it's a brutal way to get energy!!!!!
In my opinion, the bad outweighs the good, in this case. I myself live in the mountains, and would be none too happy if somebody showed up and told me that the mountains were to be torn down to generate energy, especially considering that these mountains produce a ton of energy of water runoff alone. I'm familiar with the Alberta tar sands, and like our domestic oil shale, it's quite a trade off. On one hand, you can recover massive petroleum deposits, but on the other hand, the environmental damage is irreparable. I don't think that we really need to go that route, especially considering that we still have large traditional oil deposits here in the United States. Even my home state has large off-shore oil fields that could be tapped into (in a relatively environmentally safe manner) if only the state government would let us.
Really, what's a less desirable alternative, a few more oil platforms off of the Santa Barbara coast or the leveling of large portions of the Rocky Mountains (to get the oil shale)?
Yup. Iceland sits on on the mid-Atlantic ridge (as you alluded to), a spreading center, where the North American Plate and the Eurasian Plate diverge. Iceland actually presents a massive opportunity for geothermal power (almost certainly more than is currently employed there), but I guess the real trouble is exporting that power off the island. The Mariana Trench, correct me if I'm wrong, is actually a part of a subduction zone, is it not? I'm not too familiar with the geology of that particular region.
Correct on both points. The Mid-Atlantic ridge is potentially a vast source of energy. Making widespread distribution of that energy is a whole 'nuther matter though, as you mentioned. I included Iceland as an example because it isn't under water and is highly visible. But I agree, getting that energy off the island presents a problem.
Yes, the Mariana Trench is a subduction zone with the Pacific Plate sliding under the smaller Mariana Plate.
My comment was just to clarify that tectonic plates (at different locations) also work in ways other than upheaval which produces mountains and mountain ranges. The result of what plates do depends on how the plates contact and interact with each other. But I know you were addressing how certain mountains are built, since the OP's concept was focused on mountains.
I think we agree that energy resources pretty much come in two basic flavors: renewable and non-renewable, which are either long-term or short-term. In addition, production methods are either efficient or inefficient. There are no methods that are 100% efficient, but some are more efficient than others.
To me, the idea of harvesting mountains by sending boulders down a gravity conveyor would consume much more energy to operate than it would produce. As the height of the mountain is reduced in height, the conveyor would have to be continously reduced in length. That's not to mention that energy production would come to a complete stop while the system is adjusted. And what happens with all the rubble collected at the bottom of a mountain?
Even though the whole idea of mountain leveling sounds inefficient and probably a risk to the ecosystem (although selective harvest might not be too severe), congratulations to the OP for considering other possible alternatives to produce energy.
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one of the good things is that after you top a mountain or any elevated terrain is you could bowl out the top area of the spent mountain to catch water after the gavity conveyer drive generator process was done in that area.. so you would in a sence have elevated cisterns on the spent mountains... or the flat land could be used for other uses like letting sediments settle and after time could be forested areas..or build elavated towns on the top flat part of the mountains more usable space for human activity.. and other possible benefits would be slowing down water run off and raising the long term flow rate in rivers in the harvested areas..slower run off means more water going into aquifers..just some other possibilities to consider..
a scaled up version of a conveyer system like this could be used to level off mountains to generate power.... the tec is already existing it just needs to be made very heavy duty to take the abuse of taking mountains down to a lower elevation or on dam discharg sites or in rivers of the world the potential is there to generate power with conveyers..
Logging trucks drive up up up into the mountains and then come down down down to the mills weighing ten times more. Hmmm food for thought. Also some of the large power plants are using giant gazillion pound flywheels that are sealed in vacumes. They get zooming at insane speeds at night and in the morning when the worlds firing back up they produce a very significant amount of energy.
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