U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Science and Technology
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 06-24-2009, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Universal City, Texas
3,109 posts, read 8,513,824 times
Reputation: 1772

Advertisements

Ways Scientists Were Wrong

Take a deep breath: Believe it or not, scientists are not always right. We really put them up on a pedestal, though, don't we? We quote scientists as experts, buy things if they're "scientifically proven" to work better ... but scientists are human, too. It's just not fair to expect perfection out of them, is it? But come on, can't we at least ask for a reasonable level of competency?

Ways Scientists Were Wrong: Top 10 Science Mistakes: Science Channel
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-24-2009, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Guadalajara, MX
3,022 posts, read 5,547,236 times
Reputation: 2301
Quote:
Originally Posted by gy2020 View Post
Ways Scientists Were Wrong

But come on, can't we at least ask for a reasonable level of competency?

Ways Scientists Were Wrong: Top 10 Science Mistakes: Science Channel
No reasonable level of competency? Say that just before with the help of science, it's discovered that you have cancer early enough that it can still be taken care of without fatal consequences... with science.

For one, just clicking #1 and #2 on the list were "mistakes" (if you can really call it that) were really just times of archaic thought and lack of discovery. At this time, we simply didn't have the sort of tools necessary to understand how our solar system worked or how our bodies worked yet. How exactly do you think science works? Is there a magical science ball that we have or is it trial and error until you discover what is right? That's why it's so important that our thirst for knowledge always continue and never shall we become complacent because we think we have all the answers.

Somehow I think your thread is based on something else entirely. It's almost ignorant to the point of demonization. What exactly do you have against science, or rather, your idea of what science is or what it isn't? I think it should be clear that science is about discovery and new ideas. Some ideas are worth expounding upon and some won't be.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-24-2009, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Universal City, Texas
3,109 posts, read 8,513,824 times
Reputation: 1772
I have nothing against science. I just thought it was a cute article from the Science Channel and I was sharing it with you. Don't get so thin skinned.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-24-2009, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Guadalajara, MX
3,022 posts, read 5,547,236 times
Reputation: 2301
I don't believe the article asked for a "reasonable level of competency." Notice how someone might assume this thread was born out of something other than thinking it was simply a cute article?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-24-2009, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
16,869 posts, read 51,398,709 times
Reputation: 27761
No. 10 - Alchemy
Total misinterpretation. Alchemy was a Sufi metaphor for students being turned from base metals (lead) into spiritually enlightened teachers. The reason it was couched that way was to keep fools busy.

No. 9 - Heavier Objects Fall Faster
Again, misinterpretation. A feather falls slower than a cannonball when air resistance is factored in. On a practical scale, for a middle ages peasant, heavier object DID fall faster.

No. 8 - Phlogiston
"another element to add to the list (earth, water, air, fire and sometimes ether); it wasn't fire itself, but the stuff fire was made of. All combustible objects contained this stuff, Becher insisted, and they released it when they burned." Plasma is another state of matter that partly fills the description, and otherwise, burning or any other exothermic reaction DOES result in a loss of mass. The energy from the sun is actually converted each day from tons of matter. They were off by orders of magnitude, but not so much in principle.

No. 7 - The Rain Follows the Plow
Never heard of this one, and we had farmers in the family. This sounds more like folklore than scientific theory.

No. 6 - The Earth Is Only 6,000 Years Old
This was from BIBLICAL scholars. Ask most scientists what they think of creationism. Another cheap shot.

No. 5 - The Atom Is the Smallest Particle in Existence

Atom: definition: (physics and chemistry) the smallest component of an element having the chemical properties of the element. By definition an atom IS the smallest particle of a substance that retains its characteristics. The Greek root means - you can't cut it smaller. That is technically correct.

No. 4 - DNA: Not So Important
With current research into the part RNA plays, DNA isn't as important as once thought. Sloppy posit, BTW.

No. 3 - Germs in Surgery
Well, that would be doctors, not scientists, but whatever. Scientists were interested in spontaneously forming life in jars of dirt and the like, so they did recognize itty bitty lifeforms in some manner.

No. 2 - The Earth Is the Center of the Universe
Our universe does expand from us in all directions, so in a metaphysical sense, we are at the center of our personal universes.

That was the popular view, however -Greek Astronomy
And, to quote from Archimedes (see Heath, Greek Astronomy),
“Aristarchus of Samos brought out a book consisting of certain hypotheses, in which the premises lead to the conclusion that the universe is many times greater than it is presently thought to be. His hypotheses are that the fixed stars and the sun remain motionless, that the earth revolves about the sun in the circumference of a circle, the sun lying in the middle of the orbit, and that the sphere of the fixed stars, situated about the same center as the sun, is so great that the circular orbit of the earth is as small as a point compared with that sphere.”

No. 1 - The Circulatory System
They more or less got this right. Galen was strange.

I'd give 'em a C on their story.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2009, 12:58 AM
 
258 posts, read 389,095 times
Reputation: 203
Earth, Wind, Water, and Fire the four elements. Ooops someone guessed at that one.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2009, 03:00 AM
 
2,255 posts, read 4,798,940 times
Reputation: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puddy4LyF View Post
Somehow I think your thread is based on something else entirely. It's almost ignorant to the point of demonization. What exactly do you have against science, or rather, your idea of what science is or what it isn't?
This sounds more like someone is offened for saying something negative about one's religion!

Give the guy a break, he was simply sharing some interesting historical facts about things in scientific history, most of which was when science itself as a study and practice was in it's infancy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puddy4LyF
I think it should be clear that science is about discovery and new ideas. Some ideas are worth expounding upon and some won't be.
No let's be completely honest about various aspects of science. Science is as diverse and separated into as many fields and componants as there are religions and demoninations within a particular religion.

First and foremost, today most all science is power and wealth driven. The scary thing about that is the motivations behind specific scientists and the entities that employ them. As an extreme example, North Korea, Pakistan, Iran, Nazi Germany, Soviet Union, Communist china, etc. Well the point here is that we all get the point and there is nothing to question here as the pursuits and motives are well known.

Fast forward to modern times. Many scientists behind the scenes and backed by Big-Business & Financial Interests are also some of the most scary because of the pressure for results that conclude in huge mega-profits. Drug industry is a good example. Monsanto and the Genetic Modified Organisms. Rather than the B.S. story of we only want to help the world's poor, the motivation is clearly a wealth and power issue with government involvement. Like many drugs, the researched is pushed quickly forward for results and the responsible time usually given for studying any consequences and downsides is shelved and usually only comes to light after major catastrophies like destruction of the environment or loss of human life which end in lawsuits which leads to court orders to expose what they actually knew but has been hidden under lock and key all along.

Do the research on GMO corn. Side effects like Monarch Butterfly catapillers dying after eating milkweed dusted with this GMO corn pollen ??? How about the same pollen finding it's way into waterways like streams, creeks, rivers, etc and killing off Caddisflies, a major food source for frogs and fish ??? How about Super GMO plant pollen carried by wind and pollenating similiar wild species of the same kind/type and creating the superweeds that they are now finding down south with those particular GMO genes ??? There is a reason nature has builtin species barriers. Nature in it's pristine state is very well organized and effecient and shows order. Science in many areas has disrupted that and no doubt in some cases there may be areas where it is irreversible. I'm not talking here about plant or animal breeding and hybreds. It's the taking of genes of an entirely different and unrelated organism and attaching it to something contrary for which it was design for.

The main science I respect are the ones who alarm us to the consequences. I respect the ones that are studying our earth's environment in the fields, who have no motivation of profits, power and obscene wealth, who are there because they love the research in their specific field and that's what motivates them. You can go to almost any forum and find more critics of things like Global Warming is a fraud, hoax, scam etc. These researchers are not ever going to get rich off the findings they report and I don't believe most are politically motivated. When a person does their personal research from all of those stupid Left & Right wing websites for supposed truth, you're never going to get anything but what you personal sounds good to you. It's almost identical to different religions, people latch onto what personally tickles their ears vomited forth by some power motivated clergyman who they willingly allow to do their personal religious study and thinking for them. Science is not all that different despite the lame attempts by many to elevate it to the status of infallibility.

Everyone needs to understand that the men and women scientists, who although are well educated, should not be held up and put on a pedestal to be worshipped as any kind of saviors. They are subject to all the same imperfections and frailties as any human being on earth with little or no education. Personally I spent almost 24 years living on the edge of wilderness studying natural ecosystems and their effects on the development of various plant communities. When studying anything in regards environment, you can't restrict yourself to any specific science even if you originally educated with a specific field of interest. You find that almost everything is connected and can't be ignored. At that point you start looking into the research done by others in unrelated fields because of a perceived or observed connection. You're greatful for the work they did. Although my background is botany, I became intrigued with the healthful physical structure of water in nature and how it can be replicated in areas such as cities or even agriculture. For the moment I'm working with an institute here in Sweden for ecological technologies. I've worked for Coors Bio-Tech in Golden, Colorado and a short stint with Plant Health Care Inc whose research into Mycorrhizal applications into all landscape and agricultural endeavors has proved GMO to be worthless an unnecessary. In fact and unfortunately they have not long ago entered into an agreement with Monsanto and given them permission to use some of their technology. I simply DO NOT trust that company and I'm sure it will eventually have some sort of consequences on down the road.

Prior to moving to Sweden I actually spent four years proving this at a large property maintenance corporation from San Diego in their landscape division as their supervisor. I often butted heads with those who I worked for as well as those who worked under me about shelving any petrochemical approach to fertilization and pest management. I had to endure being criticized and treated like some new age idiot. However after four years of innoculating almost all the plants on all the large properties with various mycorrhizal applications and natural fertilizers and using a form of structured water, the plants improved radically. The place was an unhealthy and pest infested wreck when i got there. I spoke a month ago to my former boss and he asked if I'd come back. He said that almost exactly one year after I left the place went completely down hill from the new supervisor who went back to the conventional scientific applications of petrochemical theology.

Science is not the ultimate savior. It can help us and benefit us, but it's potential ultimately can and will destroy us as well. Just keep tabs on the News the media continually updates us with all the time. The O.P. was only interested in sharing some historical facts of history.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2009, 03:20 AM
 
2,255 posts, read 4,798,940 times
Reputation: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
No. 9 - Heavier Objects Fall Faster
Again, misinterpretation. A feather falls slower than a cannonball when air resistance is factored in. On a practical scale, for a middle ages peasant, heavier object DID fall faster.
No kidding, that would be called the guillotine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea
No. 7 - The Rain Follows the Plow
Never heard of this one, and we had farmers in the family. This sounds more like folklore than scientific theory.
This actually sounds like something from my family in Iowa who always had and sometimes went by a "Original Farmer's Almanac"

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea
No. 6 - The Earth Is Only 6,000 Years Old
This was from BIBLICAL scholars. Ask most scientists what they think of creationism. Another cheap shot.
Actually this is a misrepresentation of the Bible's own facts. The literal interpretation which is espoused by the creationist (a term nothing to do with the genesis creation account), is like most things with religion completely false. The evidence of the hard sciences such as geology, physics and astronomy fortunately cannot be screwed with by either side who both have personal agendas, but that's for another thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea
No. 4 - DNA: Not So Important
With current research into the part RNA plays, DNA isn't as important as once thought. Sloppy posit, BTW.
Of course it's not important and we all understand the necessary reasons for trying to re-define The Central Dogma of Molecular Biology don't we ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea
No. 2 - The Earth Is the Center of the Universe
Our universe does expand from us in all directions, so in a metaphysical sense, we are at the center of our personal universes.
This is funny. I have always joked about this and said it's any point where I am personally standing at any one time.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2009, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
16,869 posts, read 51,398,709 times
Reputation: 27761
"This is funny. I have always joked about this and said it's any point where I am personally standing at any one time."

Humph! Maybe YOUR universe.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2009, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Universal City, Texas
3,109 posts, read 8,513,824 times
Reputation: 1772
Thank you Bluepacific. As I said yesterday, I was going through some science sites and found what I thought would be interesting reading. Some got play, others didn't!!
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Science and Technology
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top