"The Chicken OR The Egg: Which Came First? Black Holes OR Galaxies? (format, problem)

[PITTSTON2SARASOTA]

Prevailing theory has always held that Black Holes were formed as Galaxies grew larger and the core density increased. New evidence points to the anomaly that the Galactic fringe is rotating as fast as the central core with its Black Hole; which should not be possible unless the core and outer spiral bands were gravatationally linked long ago. This implies that Black Holes actually may help form Galaxies, not the other way around. I think the Black Holes came first and "seeded" the Galaxies. So who do you think came first; the Galaxies OR the Black Holes?

[gy2020]

Actually this is a connundrum. We have the big bang, which is probably a white hole from a previous universe. ad inifinity into the past. Never a beginning and at the end of the universe a collapse (giant blackhole) to another universe on the other side.

That's the hugh black hole and the white hole of the big bang. After the universe is formed then there were probably isolated stars that formed and maybe a blackhole developed from this. And thena galaxy could develope around a black hole. This would be the galactic size blackhole. And you would have smaller blackholes from isolated stars that collapsed. But in the end the final blackhole would be created which would go on to become the white hole of a new universe.

[PITTSTON2SARASOTA]

Originally Posted by gy2020

Actually this is a connundrum. We have the big bang, which is probably a white hole from a previous universe. ad inifinity into the past. Never a beginning and at the end of the universe a collapse (giant blackhole) to another universe on the other side.

That's the hugh black hole and the white hole of the big bang. After the universe is formed then there were probably isolated stars that formed and maybe a blackhole developed from this. And thena galaxy could develope around a black hole. This would be the galactic size blackhole. And you would have smaller blackholes from isolated stars that collapsed. But in the end the final blackhole would be created which would go on to become the white hole of a new universe.

That is very similiar to Brane Theory, where universes are visualized as sheets oscillating and occassionally two Branes "touch" and the tremendous energy released creates a new universe with new physical laws. Some people also postulate primoddial black holes but no proof yet...maybe the LHC will give us some answers, let's hope so.

[gy2020]

Yes Pittston2sasrasota, go back into our old post on other numbers below and above. We have had several threads on parallel universes. I am a big believer in Brane theory and parallel universes. I even created a separate forum for parallel universe discussion. it was active for a while but not so much now. Too bad. But I love parallel univereses. It makes us take responsibility for our actions. If any thought can create a separate universe, what a responsibility.

[PITTSTON2SARASOTA]

Originally Posted by gy2020

Yes Pittston2sasrasota, go back into our old post on other numbers below and above. We have had several threads on parallel universes. I am a big believer in Brane theory and parallel universes. I even created a separate forum for parallel universe discussion. it was active for a while but not so much now. Too bad. But I love parallel univereses. It makes us take responsibility for our actions. If any thought can create a separate universe, what a responsibility.

I'll check out the other threads....I especially like cosmology and the new data suggesting that our universe is expanding at an accelerating rate????? However it ruins my pet theory that the Big Bang is like a heart beat and will blue shift back to its densest state and Poof.... new universe.

[decafdave]

Is it possible they both appeared in similar time frames? As the universe cooled and matter congealed there would be some levels of density of matter clumps that formed stars/galaxies and others that were more dense and collapsed directly into black holes. That's my theory-I say in some cases galaxies were helped form by black holes and other times the opposite could be true.
I'm no cosmologist but this stuff is fascinating.

Gy, the only problem with the infinite cycle of white hole/black hole is that the current universe is accelerating in its expansion. And think of the infinitesimally small probability that we would just happen to be living in the final cycle.

It would be cool if white holes do exist as I think physicists say they could in theory but how could we explain their apparent absence? Quasars perhaps?

[PITTSTON2SARASOTA]

Originally Posted by decafdave

Is it possible they both appeared in similar time frames? As the universe cooled and matter congealed there would be some levels of density of matter clumps that formed stars/galaxies and others that were more dense and collapsed directly into black holes. That's my theory-I say in some cases galaxies were helped form by black holes and other times the opposite could be true.
I'm no cosmologist but this stuff is fascinating.

Gy, the only problem with the infinite cycle of white hole/black hole is that the current universe is accelerating in its expansion. And think of the infinitesimally small probability that we would just happen to be living in the final cycle.

It would be cool if white holes do exist as I think physicists say they could in theory but how could we explain their apparent absence? Quasars perhaps?

You may be right??? Black holes and galaxies are definetely coupled in their formation; so sometimes may be one way other times different....good...we usually just look for one explanation, when there may be several. About the white holes..I agree.....Two branes touching may behave like a white hole...eitrher way poof...new universe with different physical laws and dimensions....Tha accelerating expansion has thrown me for a loop also...so it is hard to know what the heck is happening until we find dark matter or confirm dark energy or find a "graviton" or incorporate it inti a theory of everything.

[Huckleberry3911948]

galaxies came 1st, whats a black hole guna eat if there aren't any?

[PITTSTON2SARASOTA]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948

galaxies came 1st, whats a black hole guna eat if there aren't any?

Scientists used to think that, however the outer bands of the galaxies they surveyed rotated as fast as the galactic centers. This should not be possible...the only currently accepted scientific explanation is that they were coupled at birth. Remember some scientists still postulate ythe possibility of primordial black holes...which The Large Hadron Collider may create. And of course, as our last poster noted....some may come before BUT...they cannot form in a distant time frame OR the rotation would be much slower in the outer galactic bands....and this data is confirmed....we still have a lot to learn but this discovery has opened up new insights into galactic and black hole formation.