Social status in Seattle (university, live, to move)

[packet]

Originally Posted by 415_s2k

Evidently you didn't live here long enough to know the difference between Richmond and the Richmond. As movingwiththewind noted, it is located in SF, west of downtown and north of Golden Gate Park. USF is in the Richmond. Geary and Clement are both packed with tons of fun bars, shops, etc. It's an extremely safe, largely middle-class area.

If that's the case, they most certainly should! Thanks for perfectly playing into what I said earlier about the common assumption I noticed up there that if you don't, for instance, drive a Subaru and dress like a mountaineer, you're wasteful and vapid Maybe some people dress to the 9's and drive expensive cars because they can afford to...?

Eh, Inner Richmond is a bit of a long bus ride to downtown, but it's not a bad place. Outer Richmond though feels a lot more suburban than most of SF though. Closer to the sunset district than anything else. Some really awesome Asian food in Inner Richmond though.

More to the point, you're baiting the locals for hating outsiders and then laughing that they hate outsiders when they defend Seattle. I'd hardly say that's a reflection of everyone's attitudes around here. At this point it seems more like you're trolling this thread.

Where exactly would I fit in around here in your little hierarchy of Seattle's residents? I do go mountaineering, and I own a Subaru. I also own a Lotus and used to own a Porsche. whooo. Who really cares? People drive what they want to drive. I don't see any hate for it either way. I've never been called vapid or wasteful. I've never seen any hate for it around here aside from what you're telling me I'm supposed to have seen.

[seattlerain]

I think parts of this conversation are an indication that many people in our country have forgotten what true friendship is...

So many people today mistake casual acquaintances for friends. While it is possible for those casual acquaintances and neighbors to turn into real friends, many if not most of those relationships are nothing more than acquaintances.

[Robineli]

Ditto for us. We go hiking. We're both tech people. We wear comfy functional clothes, and we actually wear hiking clothes when hiking (those giant rocks are slippery!). He goes out some nights with both native Seattlites and transplants, while I work on creative projects (guessing that makes me a weirdo loner, but what I do is extremely time consuming).

I've moved an average of once every nine months since I was born. Every state, city, neighborhood, and street has it's own personality. If the neighbors don't want to hang out, they don't want to hang out. That doesn't make them weirdo loners - it means they're comfortable doing their own, independant thing.

[vandygirl]

Originally Posted by 415_s2k

Evidently you didn't live here long enough to know the difference between Richmond and the Richmond.

It's more like I don't feel like living my life worried about what the guy sitting on the bus next to me does as long as he's pleasant or keeps to himself. I don't care what the guy making my pizza does to his wife when he gets home as long as he washes his hands before he makes my pizza.

That's right. I remember "the Richmond". It's a little bit off the beaten path so I was thinking "Richmond" which is a lot more common. BTW, I've lived in the bay area for many years. Once again, you don't know anything about me.

I don't care about what the guy sitting next to me on the bus does either. What caused you to make that logical leap? And how do you know that anybody washes his hands before making your pizza? I'm particular about where I eat, at whose table I sit down, and who I invite into my life. If you live long enough you might gain some of that wisdom.

There is no rule that says you have to be friends with everyone who lives near you. It is not odd if you are not a part of all your neighbors' lives when you live in an urban environment. If you are, good for you. I wouldn't go around disparaging a city like Seattle because being chummy with every neighbor is not always practical, nor necessarily desirable in some circumstances.

[vandygirl]

Originally Posted by apocalypse0915

"The fact that this is how you've lived; you didn't realize that it's normal for people in a neighborhood to get together and socialize and do things like watch TV or have a barbecue or what have you, and you ask why it's necessary indicate that, well, you're a serious introvert. For whatever reason, not saying it's good or bad one way or the other, you just don't need or want people around you to be social with or to. If that's the case, then there's a good chance you'll dig Seattle."

@415...for all the wisdom you try to impart, you don't seem well-versed into different cultures and ethnicities. First, everybody's definition of "normal" is different, so for you to say it's "normal" for people to do those social activities you mention is a major fallacy. And second, just because you don't watch TV or have dinner with your neighbors doesn't mean you're a "serious introvert." Some people, cultures, ethnicities, etc value their privacy and don't necessarily feel they're being rude or introverted by wanting that. Being Nigerian-American myself, I can speak firsthand that me, my siblings, parents, etc have NEVER had dinner with my neighbors as adults. And after living in China for an extensive period of time, their culture is very similar to that of Africans and African-Americans. WE DON'T NEED TO CONSTANTLY BE AROUND PEOPLE...

So before you try to pass judgment on people, do your research, get your facts straight, travel the world, and then come back and see if you can impart some wisdom. It seems that your quite the controversial figure on this forum and that you don't really add too much value.

Thank you for adding that. I am African American and that is how I feel. I've never been at a get-together by an African American family where all the neighbors were invited; maybe one or two neighbors who are also friends would be invited but certainly not the whole neighborhood. A black family that lived next door used to throw parties all the time and we never invited each other to those parties or even to each others' house.

Perhaps 415 was helpful in the past but he seems to be trolling this thread.

[JesseJB]

Originally Posted by vandygirl

Thank you for adding that. I am African American and that is how I feel. I've never been at a get-together by an African American family where all the neighbors were invited; maybe one or two neighbors who are also friends would be invited but certainly not the whole neighborhood. A black family that lived next door used to throw parties all the time and we never invited each other to those parties or even to each others' house.

Perhaps 415 was helpful in the past but he seems to be trolling this thread.

I dont invite neighbors to parties because I automatically assume they dont want me to have one. Seattle is one of the cities where you can get a noise complaint from watching the Price is Right.

[vandygirl]

Originally Posted by 415_s2k

How many Nigerians are there in Seattle? A few hundred or so? I don't know, but they sure haven't left any perceptible mark on Seattle's culture that would have anything valid to do with this discussion.

Wow. There was nothing warm about that remark. If you ever travel back to Seattle I hope you stop by the Northwest African American Museum on Beacon Hill. You would learn a lot.

[apocalypse0915]

Okay...?? Great story, but not really sure of the relevance.

Tell Grandma I said "thanks" also

Whether there be one or one million Nigerians/Eritreans/Japanese/etc and regardless of if they've left a "perceptible mark," before you determine what's "normal," first understand their culture. And maybe venture out of the white neighborhood sometimes before forming that opinion.

I'm not debating whether introversion is right or wrong, but your theory that because someone doesn't have bbqs, watch ballgames, or partake in some other soiree with their neighbors, means they're a "serious introvert," is flawed.

Sure bub

I'm bored, don't feel like watching "Law & Order" with my neighbor, so decided to respond

[415_s2k]

Cool beans! Nice, pleasant response, that last bit.

I didn't respond to anything yesterday because it was my day off. Like I said, when I have downtime at work...

Grandma's dead, sorry.

The relevance of my mentioning my Eritrean ex-neighbors is that what is being offered here as African/African American cultural norms doesn't fit with what I've experienced.

To address the African American/Nigerian American comments and whatnot... well, last night, I took the BART over to Oakland because I was invited to a barbecue by some of my old neighbors over there, who incidentally are African-American. I was gone up in Seattle for over a year and a few of my old neighbors still kept in contact with me. My experience after having lived in black neighborhoods a few times in my life is that my neighbors were generally very warm and inviting; I did get invited over for dinner, to parties, to barbecues, etc. Maybe it's because they knew that I was a) the lone non-black fellow in the neighborhood and b) I don't have family out in this part of the 'States and they felt bad for me, or c) I'm actually a very friendly, approachable, and somewhat effervescent person in real life, but yeah... I'm sorry, I can't agree with what you're saying here. When my ex-fiance's mother died unexpectedly and I flew back to Boston to take care of the arrangements we went to our favorite Ethiopian restaurant, which we frequented back when we lived there. The proprietors knew us as well as her mother simply because we were frequent patrons, and when the family matriarch came to serve us, she asked us how things were in LA and how mom was doing. We told her we were there because she passed away, and she started crying. They closed the restaurant for the next afternoon and came to the funeral.

So, maybe what you're talking about is a Nigerian-American/Atlanta thing. Or, maybe it's just a you thing.

To address Vandygirl more directly: you're right! We know nothing about one another. Did you spend your childhood in Seattle, or do you have kids there? Have you ever heard of the African-American Academy? Well, to sum it up, it's a Seattle Public School that is targetted specifically towards the African-American demographic in Seattle. In 1991, they opened a new schoolhouse in South Seattle called Coleman Elementary that housed the then-new African American Academy, as well as the Horizon program, which I guess is now called the "APP" (accelerated progress program) up there. I was in the Horizon program, and so my class was comprised primarily of kids in the African American Academy.

Because of this, my curriculum was primarily focused around the African American experience. I went to that museum a few times; don't recally how many exactly, but while other kids were learning about George Washington in class, I was learning about Frederick Douglass. I'm not saying that this makes me an honorary African Amercian or any crap like that; no, I'm white. I may be of mixed (Asiatic) heritage, but I was born and raised in the US, look 100% Scandanavian, and so because of this, I have experienced life as a white male, and I purport to be nothing but. This admitted and said, no, I don't need to go back to learn how African Americans have contributed to Seattle's history; I already know very well.

However, while Nigerians are African, and while it follows that a Nigerian American would be an African American, you know as well as I do that within the African American community, Nigerian Americans inherit their own unique customs based on the duration of time they've been in the US and how they immigrated here. Saying or implying that the Nigerian American experience and the African American experience, as the term is commonly applied towards the descendents of freed slaves who were taken to this country 150+ years ago and whose lineages have existed in the US during the interceding period between then and now, is incorrect, and you know it.

The African-American community in Seattle isn't that big, but they most certainly have made an indelible mark on the city's social and historical fabric. The Nigerian-American community... not so much. Sorry if that offends you because it's not warm and cuddly; sometimes the truth isn't that pleasant to hear. I'm not disparaging the richness of their/your culture or downplaying your experience in the US, just stating the fact that there just plain aren't that many of you in Seattle. I stand by my statement and make no apologies. Welcome to the real world.

All this said, I'm done picking straws with you guys. I have no time to worry about offending oversensitive personalities who don't factor into my life one way or the other. I'm also not a negative person, really, and I don't want to engage in a public flame war, so this is the last of your messages in this thread I'll respond to publicly. If you want to keep the dialogue going for whatever reason, PM me.

[415_s2k]

Originally Posted by packet

Eh, Inner Richmond is a bit of a long bus ride to downtown, but it's not a bad place. Outer Richmond though feels a lot more suburban than most of SF though. Closer to the sunset district than anything else. Some really awesome Asian food in Inner Richmond though.

Fifteen minutes by bus isn't that long unless the bus is packed with a bunch of kids from USF who went and got loaded closer to downtown and are now loudly singing 80's songs they're too young to actually remember or puking on the floor. Incidentally, I generally prefer to walk from Union Square back home at the end of the night.

More to the point, you're baiting the locals for hating outsiders and then laughing that they hate outsiders when they defend Seattle. I'd hardly say that's a reflection of everyone's attitudes around here. At this point it seems more like you're trolling this thread.

No, I'm stating things as I see them and people are getting their undies in a bunch over it. I'm not saying that I'm correct, and for the billionth time, if I had as awesome an experience in Seattle as you guys have had, I'd still be there. I didn't. Not everyone does. I saw things differently fromyou and that's that. Now leave it be, for christ's sake.

Where exactly would I fit in around here in your little hierarchy of Seattle's residents? I do go mountaineering, and I own a Subaru. I also own a Lotus and used to own a Porsche. whooo. Who really cares? People drive what they want to drive. I don't see any hate for it either way. I've never been called vapid or wasteful. I've never seen any hate for it around here aside from what you're telling me I'm supposed to have seen.

From what I know of you? It makes you an avid hiker who owns a Subaru and a Lotus, who misses points, sells the macro for the micro when it comes to debate, and takes things far too personally. Impeccable taste with your autos, though Elise or Exige? I'm planning on the latter in another year or two. I adore the S2000 and it's been a great compromise between track and street car, but I want something a bit more hardcore for when I go down to Laguna Seca.