Social status in Seattle (Mercer Island, Rainier: fit in, insurance, crime)

[apocalypse0915]

Don't know if the thread title is appropriate, but whatever...

So coming from Atlanta, it seems like the following kinda pervade the entire city and dominate the culture:

- Pretentiousness
- Materialism
- Job status
- The sycophantics
- Gold-digging women/attention-grabbing men, etc (you get my point)
- etc

I'm so sick of the avaricious and shallow nature of people over here, especially within the black community, which is why I'm leaving this place in two weeks. I'm Nigerian-American, but it just seems like the aforementioned issues are rife in Atlanta.

Case in point...my bro (we're very close) bought some new wheels for his Range Rover yesterday. Yes, he may be able to afford it, but I didn't think he needed it and felt there were more prudent things he could spend his money on. He typically seeks attention and enjoys the stares, but me, I try my best to avoid it...I dunno, maybe it's the whole "keeping up with the Joneses." I'm looking for something more in life than this

I'm just tired of it. Does Seattle suffer from the same issues- whether it be in the black community or Seattle in general? Or am I in the minority when it comes to this and just have to learn to adapt?

[uclabruins]

I am moving there in a few weeks. I have visited it a lot. I think someone who is flamboyant about their wealth would feel out of place in Seattle. People don't seem to be like that here. I know several physicians in the Seattle area and I have been to their houses. They all seemed to have nice and cozy houses. They easily make 200k or more a year but didn't have a need to be ostentatious. I think you will fit in fine here.

[70Ford]

Seattle doesn't care what racial make up you are or your monetary status. You should be fine.

Good luck. See you soon.

[eskercurve]

I live on Mercer Island, one of the more prominent and money wealthy areas in the Seattle metro area. The houses aren't pretentious, most are "big" by Seattle standards but aren't ostentatious. There's a few Bentleys, Ferraris, Lamborghinis, etc., but most people just have Volvos (old ones at that), and generic cars and some trucks. And to be on Mercer Island and afford the $1 million house (that's the average cost), you either have to have a) bought ~30+ years ago, or b) be rolling in it to live here.

The people aren't pretentious and aren't show-offy. A lot of the more well-known really rich people (like Bill Gates, and Paul Allen, co founders of Microsoft), donate to charity and fund artistic projects. If that's showing off ... I'm glad they do ^_^

In terms of your average everyday people, I haven't experienced much in the way of pretention or snide attitudes. I do see some gold-digging, especially among the Microsoft money, but it goes both ways - men who have wives and girlfriends. Reminds me of a movie quote from ... I forgot the title ... where a mafia boss was getting psychological help. When asked whether he felt bad about cheating on his wife, or if he's willing to let his wife do what his gf does, he's like "No way, she kisses my children with those lips, are you kidding me?!?" LOL.

I do see snobbery in the form of wine-and-art-gallery crowds. Just because we have some orchards that are getting semi-well-known and live in an overly expensive town some people think we're top of the world. Many more, though, prefer the many microbrews and wonderful outdoors activities. The REI crowd can be annoying, but there are people who actually are the stereotypical NW Male Action Figure (Pemco Insurance Co. has some pretty funny stereotypes of the area).

Race really isn't an issue. A black friend of mine who grew up with me in Chicago said there's only been three places where he felt "normal" ... NYC, Canada, and Seattle (he feels normal amongst friends of course but in general in Chicago there's a hidden undercurrent of racism). A good case in point was there's been two cop killers here in the Seattle area in the past year, both black, and some rash of black-on-white crime (some brutal) has come through the area. Do people say "Oh those N*ggers, we need to teach them a lesson!" No. More like, "OMG, what terrible PEOPLE."

[70Ford]

Originally Posted by eskercurve

he's like "No way, she kisses my children with those lips, are you kidding me?!?"."

Analyze this.

[415_s2k]

Originally Posted by apocalypse0915

So coming from Atlanta, it seems like the following kinda pervade the entire city and dominate the culture:

- Pretentiousness

Seattle has this in spades. It's a vastly different sort of pretentiousness than you'd see in, say, Orange County ostenacious, bling-bling, oh-I'm-so-much-more-valuable-than-you-will-ever-be, or New York/Boston's I-am-of-higher-ilk-than-you-and-my-lowest-social-graces-won't-scrape-the-stratosphere-of-you-at-your-best... no, not at all. The sort of pretentiousness I've found is more like the geeks that sat at the far table in the lunch room, who sneered at everyone else for being of what they perceived as lesser intelligence, capability, or general virtue when they weren't busy evading the social trappings which were often at their expense that everyone else abided by.

- Materialism

Only for the latest computer/electronic data products. I'd be willing to bet that Seattle has the highest per-capita ownership of the Nook and Kindle than anywhere else in the world. It's seldom that you'll see a guy with a gold chain rolling a Range Rover on 24's, or a woman with a Louis Vuitton handbag will poo-poo you because you look too pedestrian.

- Job status

No matter where you go, there are large swaths of society who will give you more respect based on your job title and/or income. A 28-year-old surgeon or lawyer will almost uniformly command more social respect (initially at least) than a 28-year-old cart wrangler at Wal-Mart or burger-flipper at McDonald's, even if the surgeon or lawyer is actually a horrific human being and the menial laborer is a gem.

- The sycophantics

I don't view this as being a pervasive social ill in Seattle, and can't really recall any particular instances where it seemed like anyone was sucking up to curry favor that would fall outside the "normal" range for American society. The worst of this I saw was easily in Los Angeles, where driving a slick, black BMW and constantly checking your Blackberry will get you laid incessantly as long as you make it seem like you are a Hollywood face who will get people noticed, even if you're actually the floor manager of a warehouse (I never engaged in this, but saw numerous female friends fall victim to it).

- Gold-digging women/attention-grabbing men, etc (you get my point)

There are gold-digging women and men who posture themselves with an inflated sense of self-worth everywhere you go, but in my experience, this is less socially acceptable in Seattle than cities like NYC, LA, Boston, etc. In those cities, there are blogs, clubs, and social circles constructed around this sort of behaviour, and while I've got no doubt that it happens in Seattle, I can tell you for a fact that you would never get away with it openly like you could elsewhere.

My ex-roommate, who's going to law school at the UW; works in a law firm; is from LA and very status-conscious remarked to me that she was amazed at the frequency which she saw overweight, plain-jane, frumpy women without grad or postgrad degrees who were betrothed to attractive, fit, successful men than she did in Seattle: when she started dating, she scared off a lot of men of the "caliber" she was pining for with her social projection and attitudes, which was what she needed to get noticed in LA. Although I'm generally down on Seattle and wouldn't ever consider living there again, this is definitely something I will give Seattle over cities like LA, which I otherwise prefer.

I wear tailored suits with cufflinks and have a few shirts with collar pins, and I stuck out like a sore thumb even in the glammier parts of downtown.

I'm so sick of the avaricious and shallow nature of people over here, especially within the black community, which is why I'm leaving this place in two weeks. I'm Nigerian-American, but it just seems like the aforementioned issues are rife in Atlanta.

I ultimately found people in Seattle to be as shallow if not more shallow on the whole than people in the LA area or San Francisco; it's just that their sensibilities lie in the range of things that are stereotyped as "less shallow" by most of society.

People who are dressed like librarians and lumberjacks will look at you because you're wearing a polo shirt from American Eagle and automatically decide that you're of low virtue and your opinions are of minimal consequence because you're wearing a major brand-name article.

Case in point...my bro (we're very close) bought some new wheels for his Range Rover yesterday. Yes, he may be able to afford it, but I didn't think he needed it and felt there were more prudent things he could spend his money on. He typically seeks attention and enjoys the stares, but me, I try my best to avoid it...I dunno, maybe it's the whole "keeping up with the Joneses." I'm looking for something more in life than this

Keeping up with the Joneses isn't anywhere near as much an issue as it is elsewhere, due in part to the fact that the Joneses likely just plain don't care about you, don't care to know your name or anything about you or your personality; they don't wish you ill, they wish you the best... they just wish it out of their lives. The Joneses will sit on the sofas in their house using their new iPad to read their favorite blogs while it rains outside while you will sit on your sofa using your new iPad to do the same, and you'll smile and nod politely at one another when you walk out to your driveway the next morning. You'll never get much of a read on what the Joneses are into or what you'd need to keep up with, because people in Seattle tend to be very much more private than elsewhere.

Some people find this to be refreshing. I found it maddening.

I'm just tired of it. Does Seattle suffer from the same issues- whether it be in the black community or Seattle in general? Or am I in the minority when it comes to this and just have to learn to adapt?

Overall, I would say "no."

[eskercurve]

Originally Posted by 415_s2k

I ultimately found people in Seattle to be as shallow if not more shallow on the whole than people in the LA area or San Francisco; it's just that their sensibilities lie in the range of things that are stereotyped as "less shallow" by most of society.

You're going to have to explain that one a little more ... it totally didn't make sense to me. If you mean people in Seattle hate people who are show-offy and like the bling-bling, snazzy dresses/suits, and attempt to project a holier-than-thou attitude, you're right, and personally, I'd prefer it that way. Such people, especially from NYC or LA, are just tiring to be around.

I'd counter that people in Seattle focus more on what makes life worth living than social status. Mostly. And there's weird quirks. but generally it's true.

Keeping up with the Joneses isn't anywhere near as much an issue as it is elsewhere, due in part to the fact that the Joneses likely just plain don't care about you, don't care to know your name or anything about you or your personality; they don't wish you ill, they wish you the best... they just wish it out of their lives. The Joneses will sit on the sofas in their house using their new iPad to read their favorite blogs while it rains outside while you will sit on your sofa using your new iPad to do the same, and you'll smile and nod politely at one another when you walk out to your driveway the next morning. You'll never get much of a read on what the Joneses are into or what you'd need to keep up with, because people in Seattle tend to be very much more private than elsewhere.

Some people find this to be refreshing. I found it maddening.

Hmmm ... I'd say that gardening is one way that I saw people "Keeping up with the Joneses." That or doing outdoorsy stuff, claiming they climbed Rainier X number of times, etc.

I also find the lack of neighborly actions strange. I'm from the Midwest where it's expected you get to know people on your block, parents from your kids' classes, some activities, etc. Not here. Oh lord, not here.

[415_s2k]

Originally Posted by eskercurve

You're going to have to explain that one a little more ... it totally didn't make sense to me. If you mean people in Seattle hate people who are show-offy and like the bling-bling, snazzy dresses/suits, and attempt to project a holier-than-thou attitude, you're right, and personally, I'd prefer it that way.

Basically, if you replace BMW's and Audis and Armani Exchange with Subarus and Volvos and REI, you've got the Seattle style du jour. That seems to be what the general population of Seattle expects from their fellow Seattlites stylistically, and similar to how a person in LA would prejudge a Subaru-driving, REI-wearing person as a stylistically-challenged coffee-shop outdoor-nut dullard regardless of who or what they really are, people in Seattle will judge a BMW-driving, Armani-wearing person as vapid, greedy, and Californian (which is an insult unto its own in the PNW) regardless of who or what they really are.

Such people, especially from NYC or LA, are just tiring to be around.

Yep, they're pretty annoying.

I'd counter that people in Seattle focus more on what makes life worth living than social status.

This is subjective. To people who have chosen to live in Seattle and love it, Seattle will be chock-full of what makes life worth living, of course. I thought it was way too boring because among other things I'm not outdoorsy, I'm not into the latest tech gadgets, I think coffee smells like urine, and I like sunshine, so to me? On a purely personal level, Seattle had little to offer, and from my end of the table, people in Seattle focused on really dull things. Again, to anyone who does live there, I'm sure that they think that it's a blast.

Hmmm ... I'd say that gardening is one way that I saw people "Keeping up with the Joneses." That or doing outdoorsy stuff, claiming they climbed Rainier X number of times, etc.

Could be the case. I didn't have a garden with which to garden there; I've never climbed Mt. Rainier and don't want to and hate kayaking, so I probably just didn't have anything to compete with any of my hermetic, zombie-like neighbors with anyway.

I also find the lack of neighborly actions strange. I'm from the Midwest where it's expected you get to know people on your block, parents from your kids' classes, some activities, etc. Not here. Oh lord, not here.

Exactly! When we moved from Seattle to Boston, we had block parties where someone would be like, "hey, you want to get all the block together and throw a big party next Saturday?" You'd go to the local PD, apply for a permit to have the street blocked off from 5 to 12, and then you'd have a big potluck and all the old guys would play cards and someone would have a PA and would play music... stuff like that. In Venice, Oakland, and SF, I at least knew everyone around me and was invited to parties or over for dinner, and we kept an eye out if it seemed like some hood rat was scoping someone's car and whatnot. When my roommate and I first moved up there, invited everyone in our building and the surrounding houses over for a potluck that weekend... everyone either "had plans" but were home, mostly alone... or they said they'd show, but didn't. One older fellow came by for about 20 minutes and told us not to expect anyone to show up, that the neighborhood "had changed" over the last decade... kind of a bummer.

[mishigas73]

Originally Posted by eskercurve

Hmmm ... I'd say that gardening is one way that I saw people "Keeping up with the Joneses." That or doing outdoorsy stuff, claiming they climbed Rainier X number of times, etc.

I also find the lack of neighborly actions strange. I'm from the Midwest where it's expected you get to know people on your block, parents from your kids' classes, some activities, etc. Not here. Oh lord, not here.

LOL...when I first started working in downtown Seattle, I was in Columbia Center having lunch, and overheard someone speaking about his escapades on Mt Rainier. For this native easterner, it was interesting hearing about it, but I could tell that this was his way of boasting. "Oh, this wasn't like the LAST TIME we climbed...we went up the other way, which is WAY more difficult...". Yada, yada.

Hey, I'll freely admit that I'm way more of the concrete jungle type of gal.

As for the lack of neighborly actions...that to me is also a bit strange. Being from NY, I am always shocked to hear stories about people from here who've visited there and have ALWAYS remarked about how friendly people are in NY. But, ya know, that's been beaten to death around these forums....

It's interesting though, how the term "keeping up with the Joneses" has an entirely different meaning on this side of the country.

[lifelongMOgal]

If you are not a liberal/progressive elitist be prepared to be looked down upon. The liberal elites in Seattle are worse than Methodists in believing that their way is the ONLY way. And yes, I agree with the lack of neighborliness. Several of my relatives have lived in the same neighborhood for more than 15 yrs. and still do not know, or care to make the aquaintness of their neighbors. There is a certain level of narcissim in Seattle that is quite unbecoming and unrepresentative from what they preach