Here's a question .. Why so many homeless people in Seattle? (cost, law)

[AlohaHuey]

Originally Posted by FlyiMetro

The only humans one should care for is the ones we know personally. Anyone that fails in life deserves to be washed away. Its not our jobs to save them.

One of the most disgusting, heartless, vile posts in the history of City Data.

[Xanathos]

Originally Posted by AlohaHuey

One of the most disgusting, heartless, vile posts in the history of City Data.

On the contrary, it's simply pragmatic. The reality is, this is America. If you can't make it here, you can't make it anywhere. You have to make a LOT of wrong decisions and bad choices to end up homeless in America. We're not talking one or two mistakes, we're talking an ever-increasing cascade of poor decision-making. You don't just "end up" homeless in America. This concept that we need to be empathic and sympathetic to the plight of every last person around us just doesn't work. I get that the "WhiteGuilt" crowd loves it because it appeals to their masochistic train of thought, but that doesn't make it right.

It is not the responsibility of society to help those who refuse to help themselves. A lot of them are homeless by choice - especially the majority of the streetrat teenagers who have parents living in Medina that are worried about them. If you have the wherewithall to draw up a sign and stand on a street corner for 9 hours a day, you have the ability to hold up a sign advertising a clearance sale or a pizza special. The reality is you can't save everyone, and while every last one of these homeless types will have some tale of woe about how the world chewed them up and spit them out through no fault of their own, the majority of those stories are just that - stories.

[AlohaHuey]

Originally Posted by Xanathos

On the contrary, it's simply pragmatic. The reality is, this is America. If you can't make it here, you can't make it anywhere. You have to make a LOT of wrong decisions and bad choices to end up homeless in America. We're not talking one or two mistakes, we're talking an ever-increasing cascade of poor decision-making. You don't just "end up" homeless in America. This concept that we need to be empathic and sympathetic to the plight of every last person around us just doesn't work. I get that the "WhiteGuilt" crowd loves it because it appeals to their masochistic train of thought, but that doesn't make it right.

It is not the responsibility of society to help those who refuse to help themselves. A lot of them are homeless by choice - especially the majority of the streetrat teenagers who have parents living in Medina that are worried about them. If you have the wherewithall to draw up a sign and stand on a street corner for 9 hours a day, you have the ability to hold up a sign advertising a clearance sale or a pizza special. The reality is you can't save everyone, and while every last one of these homeless types will have some tale of woe about how the world chewed them up and spit them out through no fault of their own, the majority of those stories are just that - stories.

I am SO glad I am moving someplace where this attitude is the exception, not the rule.

Your post is equally revolting on many levels. Many people in this country are one layoff away from being homeless. You can lump your bias and heartlessness into an armor that deflects any and all stories of woe.

It's so amazing the powers you have, that you KNOW JUST BY LOOKING at someone what their story is. You know it's all their fault, whatever the case. How you can lump kids homeless by choice in with people who are living out of their cars because they cannot find a job, despite a skill set.

"Whiteguilt"?? WTF are you babbling about? Only a true racist would inject race into a subject, homelessness, that is truly color-blind.

Your attitide sickens me and anyone with an ounce of compassion for those less fortunate.

So all charity is useless, why give something of yours to someone you don't know? Bill Gates should keep every last dime, and why bother having national charity drives for places like Haiti? If you don't know them, well, they probably had it coming anyway. 9/11 victims? Most people didn't know any, why bother to give them a dime? New Orleans, well, they built in a drainage area, screw-em even if they are Americans, nobody told them to live there, right?

Disgusting.

[JesseJB]

Haha you gotta be pretty sheltered to call Seattle ghetto.

[Xanathos]

You say many people are one layoff from being homeless. What decisions did they make up to that point to where they were living paycheck to paycheck in the first place? And you get on me for lumping all of them together, but how do you know they AREN'T homeless by their own undoing? You have no more information than I on any one individual, but that doesn't stop you from getting on your soapbox.

And I also didn't inject race into anything. The term "WhiteGuilt" is just a phrase that was coined some years ago by some radio DJ (Tom Leykis, I believe), and it stuck. It refers to middle-to-upper class yuppie types (who, yes, are typically Caucasian) who are all about endless bleeding heart compassion and making amends for all the ills of the world, no matter how much of YOUR money they have to spend in order to do it. It's a catchall phrase for a group of people who for some reason feel BAD that they didn't end up losers. They end up taking up all these token causes to assuage their own humiliation at being successful so they can feel better about themselves. "Oh, those poor oppressed homeless people". "Oh, those poor oppressed illegal immigrants". "Oh, those poor oppressed drug addicts", etc.

And I never once said anything about not supporting NFP charities. I said you can't save everybody, and that's 100% true. Wanna support a charity? Support a focused charity. But don't ask me to feel bad for the guy sitting on the corner of 6th and Union smoking a cigarette while placing a sign asking for money in front of him. I just saw "that guy" not an hour ago. He looks healthy enough to work to me. And he had enough money for that pack of Newports. If his priorities are out of whack, then I don't care about him.

[AlohaHuey]

Originally Posted by Xanathos

You say many people are one layoff from being homeless. What decisions did they make up to that point to where they were living paycheck to paycheck in the first place? And you get on me for lumping all of them together, but how do you know they AREN'T homeless by their own undoing? You have no more information than I on any one individual, but that doesn't stop you from getting on your soapbox.

And I also didn't inject race into anything. The term "WhiteGuilt" is just a phrase that was coined some years ago by some radio DJ (Tom Leykis, I believe), and it stuck. It refers to middle-to-upper class yuppie types (who, yes, are typically Caucasian) who are all about endless bleeding heart compassion and making amends for all the ills of the world, no matter how much of YOUR money they have to spend in order to do it. It's a catchall phrase for a group of people who for some reason feel BAD that they didn't end up losers. They end up taking up all these token causes to assuage their own humiliation at being successful so they can feel better about themselves. "Oh, those poor oppressed homeless people". "Oh, those poor oppressed illegal immigrants". "Oh, those poor oppressed drug addicts", etc.

And I never once said anything about not supporting NFP charities. I said you can't save everybody, and that's 100% true. Wanna support a charity? Support a focused charity. But don't ask me to feel bad for the guy sitting on the corner of 6th and Union smoking a cigarette while placing a sign asking for money in front of him. I just saw "that guy" not an hour ago. He looks healthy enough to work to me. And he had enough money for that pack of Newports. If his priorities are out of whack, then I don't care about him.

The difference between you and I is that when I give to charity, I do it because I see people struggling who need help and some freeloaders milking the system, but I'm a glass-half-full person, so I choose to focus on the people who NEED the help.

People like you dismiss everyone in need at the first sight of someone whim you judge to be capable of working. Screw the rest of the world, here's one guy I can conjure up as an excuse to ignore everyone else who needs help, legitimately or not.

It's appalling that you would ask about the "decisions people make to be a paycheck or two from being homeless." Most Americans live this way. Unless there are robust job options, most people are one beancounter's decision away from financial calamity. two paychecks, four...does it really matter? Are all worthy od your scorn?

Your "I didn't invent the WhiteGuilt phrase, I just use it" excuse is pathetic.

Your ALL KNOWING PERSONA somehow knows that people ('yuppies' in your words, which is so 80's, like, you know?) give to charity to assauge some sort of guilt. Your powers are truly astounding that you know this.

Your post is nothing more than recycled broad and ignorant generalizations that only have substance in your made-up world.

Nobody is asking you to feel anything. Have a nice life.

One last question: How poor does someone have to be before they stop being worthy of a charity, NFP or not?

[Xanathos]

Hyperbole argument fail on your part. One of us is being rational, and it's not you. I say "there are people who feel guilty for not turning out to be bums, and who give to charity", and you read "all people who give to charity do so only out of guilt". It's the surest sign of an extremist, and your posts back up that theory.

BTW, all charities are NFP. Charities, by definition, have to be non-profit. And it's not a question of what level of poverty makes them too far gone, it's a question of whether the person is willing to put in the effort to dig themselves out.

I'm sorry, but if I somehow found myself homeless? I would be making the rounds to every McD's within walking distance once a week asking if they had an opening or needed help. Just to keep me fresh in the manager's head for when someone inevitably quits or gets fired, and to show I was serious about wanting to work. And then I'd spend the rest of my day at Labor Ready looking for a day's work. I wouldn't be sitting in front of Argosy Cruises asking for quarters. I guess that's the difference between myself and a lot of them - I'd take it upon myself to handle my business and try to effect a change in my situation rather than hope it would just fall into my lap.

It's obvious we'll never see eye-to-eye on this topic, and I don't want to pollute it further with your endless indignant outrage that not everybody runs a vacuum pump out of their heart so more blood will hit the floor like you do, so I'm gonna call this conversation done.

[AlohaHuey]

Originally Posted by Xanathos

Hyperbole argument fail on your part. One of us is being rational, and it's not you. I say "there are people who feel guilty for not turning out to be bums, and who give to charity", and you read "all people who give to charity do so only out of guilt". It's the surest sign of an extremist, and your posts back up that theory.

BTW, all charities are NFP. Charities, by definition, have to be non-profit. And it's not a question of what level of poverty makes them too far gone, it's a question of whether the person is willing to put in the effort to dig themselves out.

I'm sorry, but if I somehow found myself homeless? I would be making the rounds to every McD's within walking distance once a week asking if they had an opening or needed help. Just to keep me fresh in the manager's head for when someone inevitably quits or gets fired, and to show I was serious about wanting to work. And then I'd spend the rest of my day at Labor Ready looking for a day's work. I wouldn't be sitting in front of Argosy Cruises asking for quarters. I guess that's the difference between myself and a lot of them - I'd take it upon myself to handle my business and try to effect a change in my situation rather than hope it would just fall into my lap.

It's obvious we'll never see eye-to-eye on this topic, and I don't want to pollute it further with your endless indignant outrage that not everybody runs a vacuum pump out of their heart so more blood will hit the floor like you do, so I'm gonna call this conversation done.

Reading comprehension fail on your part. You side with the guy who believes that you don't give anything to anyone you don't know, and then suddently charity is OK. Never did answer my question of "how poor to people have to be before they are unworthy of help?" because it causes you too much self-examination, I'm afraid. Most people who are homeless or jobless ARE out looking for something, and the nerve of some people to be homeless right in front of you, shoving it down your throat, no doubt. Nobody denies there aren't people who have more or less given up. As I said, I see them as the exception, not a reason to turn a blind eye to everyone who needs help.

Good day. I now deem this conversation closed.

[Jimmy M]

All cities have them. In the early 80s. S.F passed a law that all homeless will be helped out. No matter what. I was only a visiter. Their were some homeless. It wasent bad. Listening here, it has gotten a lot worst. Its because of that law. At the time, Washington D.C had the same law. Although D.C also passed a law after what we saw, that Panhandleing was against the law. Maybe the West Coast needs to look into that. Just get together with people around you and go to City Hall. Vote. It works. You dont like something. Dont put up with it. City Hall baby...........

[Xanathos]

Nashville TN had a great law with regards to panhandling: You could do it, but you had to obtain a license to do so. It let you know EXACTLY who was choosing panhandling as a career.