Living without a car, and mixed use developments. (Seattle, Vancouver: sales, condos) - Seattle and King County Suburbs - City-Data Forum

GreenLivingDave · 02-06-2011, 01:53 PM

I spent most of my life in Oregon, love both Portland and Seattle. The past few years I've been in FL in deeply want to return to the NW. I've been thinking more of Portland, largely because I want to greatly reduce my carbon footprint and live without owning a car, I thought Portland could be the easier place to do that as I know they have a good light rail system. Portland is also known for things green and good city planning, but I find much of it outside downtown to still be very typical ugly American sprawl.

Now I see that it looks (at long last) like Seattle is developing light-rail as well. How is what is in place now working? How is the expansion coming or has the economy halted it? How easy would it be to live in the Seattle area without a car, between light-rail, buses, zipcar, walkable neighborhoods, etc.?

Secondly how prevalent have mixed use developments become in the Seattle area, where you could have a food market, cafes, offices, etc, in the same building or development that you live in?

Hemlock140 · 02-06-2011, 03:22 PM

I work in Seattle on the waterfont. Two of my staff have no car, one in Belltown the other in Wallingford, and manage fine on local bus service, but are often late due to a bus getting stuck in traffic. The light rail is currently only going from Westlake (downtown) to the airport, and I wouldn't expect it to do much for local commutes any time soon. The emphasis will be on serving the eastside, for those young Microsoft employees that work in Redmond and prefer to live in Seattle. We do have zip cars, and more areas with condos in areas with jobs. Keep an eye on S. Lake Union, it's in the midst of development with jobs first, then housing coming. Amazon has already moved in to new offices there. Infrastructure building in Seattle, whether light rail, freeways, bridges or tunnels is very slow, with lots of controversy and delays for political reasons.

Right now, for what you want, I think Portland is way ahead.

RachelLJones · 02-06-2011, 04:06 PM

They've been 'developing' light rail for at least ten years now. However, depending on where you work, there are many business areas that have good living neighborhoods nearby. Considering Oregon's poor financial status, I'd be nervous about living there.

GreenLivingDave · 02-06-2011, 04:55 PM

When I am ready to move, looking for a job won't be an issue. I want to live an urban "green" lifestyle and am looking for where I most want to live it. I keep thinking that will be back to the west coast. I love both Portland, Seattle and Vancouver BC, I never left my heart in San Fransisco or any other CA city.

As far as size, culture, physical setting and beauty Seattle has the edge for me right now. As far as transportation options and a rep for greeness Portland has an edge.

I will be looking for a green mixed use building in a diverse and walkable neighborhood. I'm sorry Seattle is having controversy and delays with it's light rail. Between the water and the hills in Seattle it seems to me a much better alternative to trying to expand roads for more traffic.

I'm also considering WA over OR for tax reasons, when I move I should have a good income, but I don't need or want a lot of "stuff" in fact a studio apt'/condo would be great for me. So for good income without much stuff WA's sales tax beats OR's high income tax at first look anyway!

On the personal downside for Seattle there is family in that area which I would be happy to never see again, but with over 3.5 mill, there is a good chance I wont.

Part of me would prefer to move to Europe, much more of the lifestyle I want there, but the target market for my biz will be the USA, so I feel I should stay here!

SitoUK · 02-07-2011, 12:58 PM

I've been in Seattle since October and do not have a car. If you live in an area that easily walkable, such as Capitol Hill, this is definitely doable. All your daily needs in terms of supermarkets, restaurant and nightlife are catered for in the area and you can easily walk everywhere. There are lots of buses to downtown and you can easily walk there as well if you prefer.

It gets more difficult if you go to places further afield. You usually have to change buses in downtown and the schedules don't appear to be very well synchronized, so often you have to wait when changing buses and a relatively short trip in terms of distance can take quite a while.

One of Seattle's great attractions is the outdoors and it's quite difficult to get there without a car. I am using zip car for outdoor trips and to go to places like IKEA or the Outlet malls. This works really well but of course costs money as well...less than owning a car though.

AlohaHuey · 02-07-2011, 02:08 PM

I find the mixed-use developments ugly and completely lacking in unique architecture. They all look the same.

Unless you live on the existing light rail line in Seattle, don't expect significant expansion any time soon. Use a shared-car service or the well-established Metro bus routes.

Be advised you'll be paying c. 10% sales tax in WA, while Oregon has no sales tax (they do have an income tax).

sean98125 · 02-07-2011, 03:46 PM

Portland is decades ahead of Seattle when it comes to mass transit. No comparison.

AlohaHuey · 02-07-2011, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean98125

Portland is decades ahead of Seattle when it comes to mass transit. No comparison.

I would disagree. maybe their light rail is better, but Metro goes just about anywhere up and down the city corridor. Couple that with the Sounder trains, the basic light rail..."decades ahead" is quite an exaggeration.

Decades ahead of Detroit, maybe.

Xanathos · 02-07-2011, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenLivingDave

I spent most of my life in Oregon, love both Portland and Seattle. The past few years I've been in FL in deeply want to return to the NW. I've been thinking more of Portland, largely because I want to greatly reduce my carbon footprint and live without owning a car, I thought Portland could be the easier place to do that as I know they have a good light rail system. Portland is also known for things green and good city planning, but I find much of it outside downtown to still be very typical ugly American sprawl.

Now I see that it looks (at long last) like Seattle is developing light-rail as well. How is what is in place now working? How is the expansion coming or has the economy halted it? How easy would it be to live in the Seattle area without a car, between light-rail, buses, zipcar, walkable neighborhoods, etc.?

Secondly how prevalent have mixed use developments become in the Seattle area, where you could have a food market, cafes, offices, etc, in the same building or development that you live in?

You want Portland. Seriously. I'm not necessarily recommending it just because of the light rail or the mixed use buildings (though PDX has more of what you're looking for in that regard), but more because judging from what I've seen in your post so far, your likely other wants/desires/personality traits fall more into line with that city than they do Seattle.

GreenLivingDave · 02-08-2011, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlohaHuey

I find the mixed-use developments ugly and completely lacking in unique architecture. They all look the same.

That has far more to do with the architect and their design ability than the type of development. That said, I personally find single story retail strip mall developments, to be uniformly ugly and offensive. They are a total waste, and misuse of land and community resources.