Seattle vs Portland?

To Acrojimmy:

+1 on your post! I definitely agree with many things you said. Its great when people take time and tactful thinking to get to know a place as much as they can objectively.

I feel like Seattle is a human scale city as well, though. Im not sure what you mean by that. Seattle has roughly the same population as Portland, as well as Vancouver, BC. They all seem to be very "human scale" cities. Seattle can be about lifestyle more than Portland, but Portland can still offer a great lifestyle.

Also, I dont really see much construction in Denny triangle and South Lake Union in Seattle. I do seem some though. I do know some buildings went up there recently and that there will be more in the future. Can you name any of the high profile projects?

Personally, I prefer Seattle and Vancouver(BC) over Portland in many ways, but I still think Portland has a lot of great things about it too.


All three of these cities definitely have plenty of similarities but it seems like Seattle and Vancouver are further trying to set themselves apart from Portland and trying to resemble each other more than to Portland.
One example: Portland, Oregon has height limits for buildings, from what I remember, and virtually no skyscrapers. Seattle and Vancouver have developed rather big(for their population) modern high rise skylines and actually have some of the biggest high rise skylines relative to population(Seattle and Vancouver have roughly 600,000 each but seem to have skylines for a million+ people in the city).

Other examples as well for how Seattle and Vancouver are more similar to each other than Seattle vs. Portland or Vancouver(BC) vs. Portland.

[DJKirkland]

Originally Posted by NaturalUrbanBalence

To Acrojimmy:

+1 on your post! I definitely agree with many things you said. Its great when people take time and tactful thinking to get to know a place as much as they can objectively.

I feel like Seattle is a human scale city as well, though. Im not sure what you mean by that. Seattle has roughly the same population as Portland, as well as Vancouver, BC. They all seem to be very "human scale" cities. Seattle can be about lifestyle more than Portland, but Portland can still offer a great lifestyle.

Also, I dont really see much construction in Denny triangle and South Lake Union in Seattle. I do seem some though. I do know some buildings went up there recently and that there will be more in the future. Can you name any of the high profile projects?

Personally, I prefer Seattle and Vancouver(BC) over Portland in many ways, but I still think Portland has a lot of great things about it too.


All three of these cities definitely have plenty of similarities but it seems like Seattle and Vancouver are further trying to set themselves apart from Portland and trying to resemble each other more than to Portland.
One example: Portland, Oregon has height limits for buildings, from what I remember, and virtually no skyscrapers. Seattle and Vancouver have developed rather big(for their population) modern high rise skylines and actually have some of the biggest high rise skylines relative to population(Seattle and Vancouver have roughly 600,000 each but seem to have skylines for a million+ people in the city).

Other examples as well for how Seattle and Vancouver are more similar to each other than Seattle vs. Portland or Vancouver(BC) vs. Portland.

Interesting you say that NaturalUrbanBalence; I almost find Seattle (downtown anyway) to more closely resemble large American cities like Chicago in its built environment whereas Vancouver seems a bit more Asian (Hongcouver?) and I see Portland's South Waterfront mimicking Vancouver in a way. Back when the first streets of SoWa were being paved there were renderings produced that showed its future at build-out and it was very much like Vancouver.

Original Plan: This rendering shows the proposed future skyline for the South Waterfront development (as of summer, 2007.) It is based on information provided by the City of Portland, TriMet, Parsons Brinckerhoff, Otak, Walker & Macy, Carol Mayer/Reed, Busby & Associates Architects, Ankrom Moisan Architects, GBD, Thomas Hacker Architects, Angelli-Grahm, OHSU, Zimmer Gunsul Frasca, and Williams & Dame.

This image was created by Newlands & Company, Inc. (Home*-*Newlands & Company, Inc.)



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

At buildout it would give Portland 4 skylines - Downtown, SoWa, Lloyd District, and the hilltop ohsu complex.

Seattle will only be able to look like that if zoning changes to increase heights in South Lake Union or Belltown.

That being said, I still prefer Seattle and its neighborhoods

[AcroJimmy2]

Originally Posted by NaturalUrbanBalence

To Acrojimmy:

+1 on your post! I definitely agree with many things you said. Its great when people take time and tactful thinking to get to know a place as much as they can objectively.

I feel like Seattle is a human scale city as well, though. Im not sure what you mean by that. Seattle has roughly the same population as Portland, as well as Vancouver, BC. They all seem to be very "human scale" cities. Seattle can be about lifestyle more than Portland, but Portland can still offer a great lifestyle.

Also, I dont really see much construction in Denny triangle and South Lake Union in Seattle. I do seem some though. I do know some buildings went up there recently and that there will be more in the future. Can you name any of the high profile projects?

Personally, I prefer Seattle and Vancouver(BC) over Portland in many ways, but I still think Portland has a lot of great things about it too.


All three of these cities definitely have plenty of similarities but it seems like Seattle and Vancouver are further trying to set themselves apart from Portland and trying to resemble each other more than to Portland.
One example: Portland, Oregon has height limits for buildings, from what I remember, and virtually no skyscrapers. Seattle and Vancouver have developed rather big(for their population) modern high rise skylines and actually have some of the biggest high rise skylines relative to population(Seattle and Vancouver have roughly 600,000 each but seem to have skylines for a million+ people in the city).

Other examples as well for how Seattle and Vancouver are more similar to each other than Seattle vs. Portland or Vancouver(BC) vs. Portland.

Some good points there as well.

What I meant by human-scale is that downtown Portland and its inner-neighborhoods have much smaller blocks, more consistant pedestrian and bicycle infrastructure, better retail FAR (floor area ratio), and it feels easier to navigate as a pedestrian. The commercial/residential/industrial all feel more integrated and the neighborhoods flow into each other without any 'breaks'.

As for South Lake Union, it really is in the process of changing dramatically. Have you been on Westlake or Terry between Denny and Mercer recently? Those streets look nothing like they did a year ago, several new restaurants, bars, shops, cafes are beginning to pop up. With Amazon moving in right there and the Mercer Corridor Project turning Mercer and Valley into walkable boulevards, it should only continue to grow. In 5 years, I suspect SLU will be a destination neighborhood. As for now, its still relatively deserted but is in the process of changing.

As for Denny Triangle, east of Westlake Ave a ton of condos have gone up recently and slowly but surely commercial infrastructure is beginning to fill in. The area by the Greyhound Bus Depot is beginning to feel more like part of "downtown", although it still has a ways to go. Denny Triangle West of Westlake Ave. is still pretty desolate, though, with plenty of large parking lots, car dealerships, car wash, etc. I suspect eventually it will change as well.

Acrojimmy:I agree with what you say about Portland. Now I know what you meant by "human scale." I still think Seattle, Vancouver(BC), and Portland all have human scale things about them.

I go to Westlake/Denny at least once a week. I love the Whole Foods supermarket on Westlake/Denny. Do you know which one Im talking about? I think that block Whole Foods is on and all the development there was built in the past few years, so you are right. I think that Whole Foods wasnt there before and those buildings around it in the past few years. I guess you are right about the construction and development in that area around South Lake Union, especially around Terry avenue.

But the Denny triangle doesnt seem to have as much construction/development west of Westlake/Denny. I do some buildings there too though that seemed to have been built recently around Denny and Dexter.

Djkirkland: I didnt know there were plans like that in Portland! When will that section be built? Looks like Portland is trying to more like Seattle and Vancouver than I thought.

[AcroJimmy2]

Originally Posted by NaturalUrbanBalence

Acrojimmy:I agree with what you say about Portland. Now I know what you meant by "human scale." I still think Seattle, Vancouver(BC), and Portland all have human scale things about them.

I go to Westlake/Denny at least once a week. I love the Whole Foods supermarket on Westlake/Denny. Do you know which one Im talking about? I think that block Whole Foods is on and all the development there was built in the past few years, so you are right. I think that Whole Foods wasnt there before and those buildings around it in the past few years. I guess you are right about the construction and development in that area around South Lake Union, especially around Terry avenue.

But the Denny triangle doesnt seem to have as much construction/development west of Westlake/Denny. I do some buildings there too though that seemed to have been built recently around Denny and Dexter.

Djkirkland: I didnt know there were plans like that in Portland! When will that section be built? Looks like Portland is trying to more like Seattle and Vancouver than I thought.

Yeah, west of Westlake in Denny Triangle is pretty depressing. It's smack dab in the middle of Seattle's urban area, and yet it's a super un-friendly pedestrian environment filled with car dealerships, car services (carwash, car stereo) and huge parking lots. Hopefully it will change soon, but it will take dramatic redevelopment and rezoning to do so.

To Acrojimmy: I agree that parts of it is depressing and I hope the density is increased there(Especially west of Dexter/Denny up to Queene Anne avenue on Denny) but other parts are nice such as around Dexter/Denny and some of the surrounding streets between Dexter/Denny and Westlake/Dexter in that area with nice views of parts of Seattle, and of course around Westlake/Denny. Most people dont talk about the great skyline views that can be seen in that area. The views of Seattle from Kerry Park/Queene Anne, Alki Beach in West Seattle, and on the Puget sound near Bainbridge Island are better skyline views of Seattle but the area between Denny/Dexter and Denny/Westlake still offer some nice views.

There are also some nice nature paintings on the wall of two buildings in that area too. And I definitely like the block Whole Foods is on there and the plaza in the middle of the block. I think that Whole Foods spot is one of the best food supermarkets in Seattle. Im optimistic that the area West of Denny/Dexter on Denny Way will get better, maybe as soon as in a few years.

[redhead]

i've lived in both and if i had to pick from the two no question about it i'd pick seattle. both areas the people are moody and snoody, but portland people beat out seattle by a mile. and portland weather is much worse for no sun then seattle. but with both very dismal at best. seattle area has far better public transportation, even though portland has the max it's connecting surface buses are very bad. traffic is better managed in the seattle area as well. there's far more to do in seattle area then portland. but then again seattle is much bigger. there's fewer illegal immigrants in the seattle area then portland. oregon had the second easiest access to drivers license then the state of maine up untill a few years ago so it was a haven for illegal immigrants. washington has been better at such things.

To rehead: Wow, its interesting that you lived in Seattle, and Portland, and now live in Billings, Montana. What is that place like for you? How would you compare that place to Seattle and Portland?

[redhead]

Originally Posted by NaturalUrbanBalence

To rehead: Wow, its interesting that you lived in Seattle, and Portland, and now live in Billings, Montana. What is that place like for you? How would you compare that place to Seattle and Portland?

different planet.................nothing to compare the west coast big cities to any of the rocky mountain states. different type of people, different terrain, different weather, slower pace of life; different attitudes, like not even in the same time period.