I'm Black and was born in Seattle. Why was I? (Everett: houses, neighborhood)

[LookinForMayberry]

Funny, I just noticed this post was started nearly TWO YEARS ago, and here we are, still searching for answers!

[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by LookinForMayberry

Sorry to have to point this out to you, but much of Seattle is very racist. If you don't believe me, start traveling around the neighborhoods in North Seattle. You will be able to count the number of non-whites on one hand. In my 18 years in the area, less than 10% of the white-collar jobs were held by blacks or hispanics. You will see people of color in assembly lines, janitorial jobs, and landscaping, but few are directing the work of others.

Go to a play, a concert, a festival -- outside of the area south of downtown, you will see few blacks or hispanics. It is getting better, but they have a long, long way to go before you can honestly call them inclusive.

Personally, I don't think Seattle could be any worse than other parts of the country. Me and my family used to live there and we never had any problems. Much of the trouble happened in parts of rural Georgia. The difference I see is that Seattle doesn't have the same narrative as say, Louisiana or Georgia. Personally, the issue of racism is something that exists all over the nation, it has just manifested itself in many ways across the nation. This is a nationwide problem.
I have been to a few festivals and concerts in metro Atlanta. I am usually one of the few minorities there.

[The_Fairfaxian]

Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte

I will admit, at the age of five, the last thing that was on my mind living in Everett,WA was race or demographics. I just enjoyed life and the friends I had.
In response to your first question, I used to think that it was just pure ignorance. For some people it is ignorance. This is what I see. The underlying reason that I see is this. The thing in our collective society that makes blacks feel like they have to show a level of "blackness", well I think it is older than just the images I see on BET. To me it is a matter of economic and social control. Discrimination and stereotypes began for one big reason:control of resources. That is how prejudice started. It was a matter of the persons at the top controlling the resources and deciding who got what. For most of American history, blacks got little, if anything. Stereotypes came about because it was an easy way for people to say "hey, they're all like that, so lets control them and treat them like crap". There were so many minstrel shows in the early 20th century portraying blacks as "lazy", "stupid" and "shiftless". It was a way to give certain people an excuse to treat certain people badly and deprive them economically and socially. Fast forward to now. You see images of blacks being portrayed as "thuggish" in a sense. Whenever a black person comes along that doesn't fit that stereotype, such a person is either called "a credit to his race" at best, and at the worst, he or she is considered "not black enough". A black person can be vilified for living to the stereotype, and then vilified for not living to the stereotype. The difference is with living to the stereotype, some people feel it is easier to deal with a black person who lives to the stereotype than to deal with a person who doesn't. I think it is because it requires a person to rethink his or her thinking about the concept of race and ethnicity.

The second response, well, I have some experience with that. I lived in a metropolitan Atlanta county that was predominantly white, and rural, but the black population was steadily increasing as well as a population of people from other states. I was the "black kid who talked 'white' ". I fell under the sense of "feeling a need to act black". I changed my attire and my music because I thought I could be accepted. It didn't really work that well. I eventually quit and decided to dress the way I wanted to(I am a preppy type). I got vilified by some of the black kids as "not being black enough" and by some of the white kids who would frequently make Carlton Banks jokes. There was a kid in my school, who didn't even know me, who happened to be white. He said out of the blue "you're black, but you don't talk like it". To say the least I was a bit angry. To me, it was like he was saying "Because you are black, you have to talk a certain way". After a while, I just didn't care anymore because I didn't even want to live there anymore. I figure, "I don't live according to the stereotype. I do what I want and if other kids don't like it, they can go suck on a lemon". Personally, I think your teacher was referred to as "Mr. Oreo" because some of the kids didn't know what to make of such a person.

Your experiences in the South are a manifestation of the old days when the black population really was afraid of certain retribution for not adhering to the "black codes". The habits passed down and for many, this is considered a natural way of communicating. I think that the persons who hung their head down while you were talking to them did so because that is what they were taught. That came about because one of the "black codes" was that a black person had to act "subservient" when communicating with a white person.
My father is not from the South. He is from Wisconsin, born and raised. For that reason, his ways of communicating differ very vastly from the black people you encountered in the South. My father is going to look someone in the eyes. He is a product of parents who left the South to find better opportunities and a place where they wouldn't have to take crap from anyone. I think that is the difference. Many blacks in the North were there because of a feeling of not wanting to take crap from anyone. Many blacks in the South had to learn how to adapt to their environment and behave in certain ways.
I think the reason many people do not want to have such discussion is because it means dealing with the issues that are considered "taboo". It means telling the truth. We are all suppose to be human, but many humans don't believe as such, which is sad. I think the issue her is not only whether or not a person can be respected for his differences, but also, a matter of economic and social equality as well.

To be honest, maybe the Pacific Northwest and Plains Midwest (MN, WI, IA) parts of the North may allow blacks to adhere by their independent behavior, but the collectivist black codes behavior are very apparent in the Northeast. The difference is that there are few racially diverse suburbs that independent minded blacks can escape from such collectivist behavior (Montclair & Orange NJ, Cambridge MA, Northern Virginia) and be accepted by the majority of those communities. But for the most part, the cities consists of blacks who mostly go along with the "blackness" concept, seeing anything that doesn't adhere to the stereotypical behavior as something foreign, a threat, "not black enough," and an "insult to their race." The run-of-the-mill suburbs (Long Island, most Philly suburbs, most Boston suburbs, most DC suburbs particularly in Maryland, nearly all Jersey suburbs) have whites and non-black minorities who mostly adhere to the belief that blacks are (or should act like) gangstas, idiots, rappers, or criminals. If the whites and other minorities see a non-stereotypical black person, along with what you indicated of challenging what they were taught by society, the thought of competition comes into mind. Since there is more of a sense of the non-stereotypical black person having enough competence to compete in the "White American World," there's more of a sense of urgency and bitterness towards that non-stereotypical black person, particularly for slipping out of the cracks of poverty and mediocrity and into eventual success. As a result, many whites and other minorities become up in arms over the potential contesting of the two things they cherish most: their Jobs and their Women! The reason why I don't indicate white men as a risk is because in the Northeast, black women who are educated and non-stereotypical are more accepted in the eyes of white Northeasterners in the career and dating scene; it's the success of non-stereotypical black men that many people here fear.

However, this wasn't the case for successful blacks in certain other parts of the country. In my example, While I attended a university in Pittsburgh, my "blackness" was never the subject of ridicule or question by neither blacks, whites, nor other minorities. I'll admit that the city is somewhat segregated although not as bad as many of the cities in the general Northeast; remember that this is a city whose whites and blacks are pretty much in the same socioeconomic standing. And racism was definitely there, basically in the form of name calling; but I'm not one to get too upset about idiots yelling n*****; bitter little feelings doesn't stop me from getting a successful job, a decent home, or a girlfriend or spouse outside of my race! (and I'll bet you that the amount of people who think of every black person as the "n" word in your typical Northeast city outnumbers the people who are either think or blurt that word in a lot of other cities in this nation). However, the overall sentiment, not just from college students, but from the city in general, was that I was just another one of a million Americans (or in this case, one of another 300,000 persons living in Pittsburgh). It was a lot easier to relate to people outside of my race than back at Maryland. Race for the non-blacks I met in Pittsburgh was evident but a non-relevant decision in their treatment towards me. In Maryland (and I'm not talking about the Eastern Shore or the Panhandle, but the DC suburbs of Maryland), however, race seemed to be all that mattered to most, and others seemed to only have a vested interest in stereotypical blacks in order to feel better about themselves and not feel as threatened. Add that in with the multitude of blacks who buy in to the collectivism idea of "blackness," and you have the Northeast US.

[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by The_Fairfaxian

To be honest, maybe the Pacific Northwest and Plains Midwest (MN, WI, IA) parts of the North may allow blacks to adhere by their independent behavior, but the collectivist black codes behavior are very apparent in the Northeast. The difference is that there are few racially diverse suburbs that independent minded blacks can escape from such collectivist behavior (Montclair & Orange NJ, Cambridge MA, Northern Virginia) and be accepted by the majority of those communities. But for the most part, the cities consists of blacks who mostly go along with the "blackness" concept, seeing anything that doesn't adhere to the stereotypical behavior as something foreign, a threat, "not black enough," and an "insult to their race." The run-of-the-mill suburbs (Long Island, most Philly suburbs, most Boston suburbs, most DC suburbs particularly in Maryland, nearly all Jersey suburbs) have whites and non-black minorities who mostly adhere to the belief that blacks are (or should act like) gangstas, idiots, rappers, or criminals. If the whites and other minorities see a non-stereotypical black person, along with what you indicated of challenging what they were taught by society, the thought of competition comes into mind. Since there is more of a sense of the non-stereotypical black person having enough competence to compete in the "White American World," there's more of a sense of urgency and bitterness towards that non-stereotypical black person, particularly for slipping out of the cracks of poverty and mediocrity and into eventual success. As a result, many whites and other minorities become up in arms over the potential contesting of the two things they cherish most: their Jobs and their Women! The reason why I don't indicate white men as a risk is because in the Northeast, black women who are educated and non-stereotypical are more accepted in the eyes of white Northeasterners in the career and dating scene; it's the success of non-stereotypical black men that many people here fear.

However, this wasn't the case for successful blacks in certain other parts of the country. In my example, While I attended a university in Pittsburgh, my "blackness" was never the subject of ridicule or question by neither blacks, whites, nor other minorities. I'll admit that the city is somewhat segregated although not as bad as many of the cities in the general Northeast; remember that this is a city whose whites and blacks are pretty much in the same socioeconomic standing. And racism was definitely there, basically in the form of name calling; but I'm not one to get too upset about idiots yelling n*****; bitter little feelings doesn't stop me from getting a successful job, a decent home, or a girlfriend or spouse outside of my race! (and I'll bet you that the amount of people who think of every black person as the "n" word in your typical Northeast city outnumbers the people who are either think or blurt that word in a lot of other cities in this nation). However, the overall sentiment, not just from college students, but from the city in general, was that I was just another one of a million Americans (or in this case, one of another 300,000 persons living in Pittsburgh). It was a lot easier to relate to people outside of my race than back at Maryland. Race for the non-blacks I met in Pittsburgh was evident but a non-relevant decision in their treatment towards me. In Maryland (and I'm not talking about the Eastern Shore or the Panhandle, but the DC suburbs of Maryland), however, race seemed to be all that mattered to most, and others seemed to only have a vested interest in stereotypical blacks in order to feel better about themselves and not feel as threatened. Add that in with the multitude of blacks who buy in to the collectivism idea of "blackness," and you have the Northeast US.

I have never been to the Northeast, but much of what you described happens in the South too. The difference is that Atlanta is portrayed as the place for blacks. If you're in the city of Atlanta, you might catch crap from other blacks. If you go into the suburbs, it's hit or miss from anyone, black, white, hispanic, asian,etc. In Atlanta, it isn't as blatant as you describe the Northeast. A few people make comments, but there are many people who follow stereotypes in their minds. There is some tension between Atlanta-born blacks and blacks from places like California, New York, Illinois and other states outside of the south. One big issue I hear from African-Americans who have moved from the western USA to the South is that many of them, especially children, are made fun of for not being "black enough" by other blacks. I have a friend from California. He spent time in metro Atlanta for college. Within a few years he was planning for his return to the Bay Area. I don't blame him. Being an African-American who doesn't live to the stereotype, I caught alot of crap, especially in high school. You are right about the competition part. I am going to tell you about my high school. It was in Paulding County, which is basically part of metro Atlanta, but feels more like a part of Alabama than Georgia. It was predominantly white with a sizeable black population. I was made fun of by both blacks and whites. As much as some of the students complained about some of the black students who did stupid things, it seemed like the blacks who lived according to the stereotype were accepted more than blacks who didn't. Some of the black students made fun of me for "acting white" and some of the white students made fun of me as well, referring to me as "carlton Banks", and making referrences to Tom Jones and the "dance". This isn't universal through metro Atlanta, but that was my experience. I even caught crap in college with some of the students asking me to do the "Carlton dance". A friend of mine told me what you just said. Some of the people felt threatened by the fact that I didn't live to the stereotype and therefore treated me like crap for it. You did mention something about women. The South has a particularly bad history about dealing with black men who date outside of their race. If a black male even looked at a white female, he could be mob-murdered, aka lynched. I actually have a few close friends who are white females. One night I was talking with one of my friends. I was in the car with her and we were going out to eat. The fact that I was a black man hanging out with two white females was lingering in the back of my mind. I mentioned to one of my friends that if it was 50 years ago I could have been lynched for hanging around her. She agreed and then mentioned that someone was lynched in Marietta,GA, where a famous landmark called The Big Chicken now stands. My father even mentioned this, being born and raised in Milwaukee,WI. He told me that in the North, I could have money, but most whites wouldn't want to live near me and in the South I might live near whites but I couldn't have more then them. Personally, I don't think either is much better. There are places in the South where blacks can be independent minded and it is accepted. Much of what you describe happens in the South too. I plan to leave the South once I graduate from college.

[LookinForMayberry]

I could not help but think of a story told to me by a business mentor I worked with decades ago, in Tucson. I had recently received a promotion from a manufacturing job, to a low-level office job, and was going to community college after work and weekends. When invited to go out with the "old gang" after work, to which I had declined because of a class, I received a hurtful remark from a friend, about me thinking I was too good, but I was NOTHING. (Ouch!) Anyway, what my mentor told me, as I complained to him is this:

"People are like crabs in a pot. As long as you're hanging around the bottom of the trap, the others accept you as one of them. If you try to crawl up out of the trap, the others will pull you back down, and attack you -- you are no longer one of them."

I think what you are facing are people that resent you for your achievements, but to ridicule those would be to shed light on their lack of achievement, so instead, they attack your behavior as "not black."

I wonder what they would answer, if you asked them what the definition of "black enough" would be? Further, what if you were to ask them how that was working for them?

Personally, I think you should not pay attention to what those people are saying. The only people that should concern you, are those that are going to help you achieve your goals. I found mentors where I wanted to be, and listened to them. The others, while their comments did sting, I learned to turn them off.

I think that President Obama is going to show the ignorant people in this country -- of all races, economic, and education levels that casting stones is passe, and it's time to put your sneers into constructive actions for the good of all persons, regardless of petty differences.

I hope so.

[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by LookinForMayberry

I could not help but think of a story told to me by a business mentor I worked with decades ago, in Tucson. I had recently received a promotion from a manufacturing job, to a low-level office job, and was going to community college after work and weekends. When invited to go out with the "old gang" after work, to which I had declined because of a class, I received a hurtful remark from a friend, about me thinking I was too good, but I was NOTHING. (Ouch!) Anyway, what my mentor told me, as I complained to him is this:

"People are like crabs in a pot. As long as you're hanging around the bottom of the trap, the others accept you as one of them. If you try to crawl up out of the trap, the others will pull you back down, and attack you -- you are no longer one of them."

I think what you are facing are people that resent you for your achievements, but to ridicule those would be to shed light on their lack of achievement, so instead, they attack your behavior as "not black."

I wonder what they would answer, if you asked them what the definition of "black enough" would be? Further, what if you were to ask them how that was working for them?

Personally, I think you should not pay attention to what those people are saying. The only people that should concern you, are those that are going to help you achieve your goals. I found mentors where I wanted to be, and listened to them. The others, while their comments did sting, I learned to turn them off.

I think that President Obama is going to show the ignorant people in this country -- of all races, economic, and education levels that casting stones is passe, and it's time to put your sneers into constructive actions for the good of all persons, regardless of petty differences.

I hope so.

That is one think I have to keep thinking of. The crabs in a barrel theory. Some of the people I went to high school with didn't go to college or do anything else. I was the person who always rose his hand in class, not to ask a question, but to make a response involving what I knew in class. Some of my teachers loved that about me, that I was the one giving facts that most kids never knew. Some of my classmates(not all, but some of them) hated this. Some of them openly told me they didn't care what I had to say. I think it was a matter of resentment. Some of them didn't know what I knew and they resented the fact that I knew more than what they knew. A friend of mine told me that I made some of my classmates feel stupid and they couldn't respond in a better way than to lash out at me. My friend told me that the day I graduated from high school none of that would matter because I would be going to better places than some of the students who frequently lashed out at me. I think that was one think that kept me going in high school. You have a point about the crabs in a barrel mentality.

[LookinForMayberry]

Pirate;
It sounds like you and I have lived a similar childhood. I've always been a reader, and quickly grew from the silliness of children's books to reading what my parents had around the house -- mostly my dad's military strategies and biographies of consequential people. I quickly moved to library visits and my own choices, but the point is that my HOBBY gave me an unplanned advantage over my classmates. I've always loved learning new things in life, and have never looked at school as a "chore." At 53, I am still looking forward to returning to school, once we find our new "Mayberry."

That's a long way of saying that our results happened unintentionally, but others that had different hobbies, like hangin' with the crowd, might see us as "brown nosin'."

Each of us has difficulty facing the consequences of our choices, when the results don't turn out well, even when we are not aware we made a choice. When we see someone else with better results, having chosen differently, we harbor hard feelings toward ourself, or that person. In that regard, it is probably easier to blame the other, though it isn't as productive to take the hit ourselves, and learn from it.

You sound like a well-informed, thoughtful man, wise beyond your years. I have no doubt that you will succeed in what ever future choices you make, and as you do so, you will encounter much more cutting remarks and resentments from those that have not made their marks. (Look at President Obama's situation -- talk about "slings and arrows!") Consider it a barometer of your success.

More importantly, remember where the resentment comes from, and feel compassion toward your aggressors. It is their pain that sets them upon you, like cornered dogs. I hope when you do succeed, in whatever field you choose, you will seek to improve the plights of your attackers. If not for them, then for those that follow behind them, so the next person like yourself has an easier way.

Remember, there are those of us, like myself, that will always be in your corner, supporting your efforts. Best wishes.

[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by LookinForMayberry

Pirate;
It sounds like you and I have lived a similar childhood. I've always been a reader, and quickly grew from the silliness of children's books to reading what my parents had around the house -- mostly my dad's military strategies and biographies of consequential people. I quickly moved to library visits and my own choices, but the point is that my HOBBY gave me an unplanned advantage over my classmates. I've always loved learning new things in life, and have never looked at school as a "chore." At 53, I am still looking forward to returning to school, once we find our new "Mayberry."

That's a long way of saying that our results happened unintentionally, but others that had different hobbies, like hangin' with the crowd, might see us as "brown nosin'."

Each of us has difficulty facing the consequences of our choices, when the results don't turn out well, even when we are not aware we made a choice. When we see someone else with better results, having chosen differently, we harbor hard feelings toward ourself, or that person. In that regard, it is probably easier to blame the other, though it isn't as productive to take the hit ourselves, and learn from it.

You sound like a well-informed, thoughtful man, wise beyond your years. I have no doubt that you will succeed in what ever future choices you make, and as you do so, you will encounter much more cutting remarks and resentments from those that have not made their marks. (Look at President Obama's situation -- talk about "slings and arrows!") Consider it a barometer of your success.

More importantly, remember where the resentment comes from, and feel compassion toward your aggressors. It is their pain that sets them upon you, like cornered dogs. I hope when you do succeed, in whatever field you choose, you will seek to improve the plights of your attackers. If not for them, then for those that follow behind them, so the next person like yourself has an easier way.

Remember, there are those of us, like myself, that will always be in your corner, supporting your efforts. Best wishes.

I think this harkens to the original question. Many people get "clowned" by others because others feel threatened. Realizing why some people were resentful of me helped me make it through high school, and that is why I am in college now. It is nice to know there are people in my corner who want me to succeed.

[pirate_lafitte]

I read my first post on this thread. Knowing what I know now, the reason many blacks from places like Seattle face getting "clowned" by persons from Atlanta is a sad product of feeling threatened. When some people feel threatened, making fun is their own passive-agressive way of dealing with a situation.

[gorilazgomossad]

Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte

I think it has more to do with the fact that blacks from Seattle are often thought of as "not black enough". Sad but true. Many blacks don't even consider Seattle as a place to live. I'm black and I used to live there myself. I loved it and plan to go back. As for being clowned, I'm not surprised. There is alot of aversion towards Seattle in the eyes of many Atlanta residents, black and white.

props to OP and this poster for bringing this issue to light. I went to seattle once and asked the man in the plane next to me if it was diverse. He looked at me in the eye and said, "No, its pretty whitebread - and I like that". WOW. way to hate on minorities you scummy bottom feeder!! what a jerk. it definitely dimmed my view of native seattle residents, although intellectually i know i know, its only one person. But still.

=================================================



as for ppl who say anyone is not black enough-
so ignorant! what idiot says someone is not black enough. i feel terrible that you had to go through that, also to OP. did you know that in brazil, the children of same biological parents can be considered of two different races? CRAZy but true. Race is such a weird ****ed up thing. Why cant we just say "He has brown skin" the same way we say someone has "hazel eyes" or is "6 ft Tall" and not have it have to mean anything more or less than just a physical description. GRR. down, haters!