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This is an honest question. I recently compiled a bunch of information based on Redfin, doing the average price of a home based on how much land it had and which town it was in. The numbers I ended up with were absolutely ridiculous. I currently live in a townhome in Issaquah, and I love where I live, but I want a yard so taking care of my dog will be a lot easier (I do a lot of training for canine sports and since I have no yard I have to use parks on a long lead to work with my dog).
I have to honestly ask this question on here, so that the people who are willing to open up can, and the people aren't don't have to be bothered. How do you afford to live here in Bellevue/Redmond/Newcastle/Issaquah/Sammamish? How can you afford to own a single family home in this area?
It's not just income. My significant other is a Microsoftee (going on five years now) and I'm not exactly poor either. We're not drowning in debt and we're not bad with our money. But left and right our coworkers and friends we know that work other careers are buying homes in neighborhoods where you'd either have to have an astronomically high down payment (we're talking like $300,000 to put down on a house) or take on some serious amount of debt just to afford it. Most of them don't make much more than we do (as far as my knowledge goes anyway).
Are people just staying in apartments and saving up all their money for a long time? That's what I'm starting to wish I had done. How do you guys do it?
I really hope I don't seem accusatory here, I'm trying to plan for the future and our next house and I just can't wrap my head around it. I'm not from around here, obviously, and I'm from a place where people would never pay $700,000 for a house on a .15 acre lot. I remember talking to my old neighbors about the average cost of homes around here being $500,000 and they flipped out and said they would never spend that much on their house--which is on three quarter of an acre, has an in ground swimming pool and hot tub, and a good 2,500 sqft all updated. This is new to me. I'm trying to understand it so I can plan. Thanks.
its really the area and incomes. I lived in philadelphia before, and housing is much cheaper there, but the wages are much lower and unemployment is worse. also I have lived in boston, and spokane.
seattle area in general, does have boeing, microsoft, and amazon as its major employers, and the unemployment here is not as bad as other cities, hence the pricing is higher. I would say that housing in any city is directly related to the economy of that area. If boeing, microsoft, and amazon left seattle, you will see homes dropping 50% of what it is now.
if you really want, you can get a house for a few thousand dollars in detroit, but I dont think you will go far since its really hard to find a job there.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Look carefully and you can still find an occasional home in Sammamish for under $400,000, an older one that's in need of renovation, but they are available. Many of us bought in the early 90s when they were still under $200,000. Since the median family income here is over $150,000 people can qualify for home mortgage payments of $4,000 which is enough for a $700,000 home with less than $100,000 down.
I understand where you are coming from. I myself do not live in the Seattle area, but I am very familiar with the area having spent lots of time in the area. I understand factors such as quality of life, higher wages, etc., but for many people the GREAT INCREASE in housing does not justify the move even if there are many pros to living there. It is a matter of tradeoff and choice.
About 8 years ago while on one of my trips to Seattle, I was really looking at real estate prices in the area, particularly the east side since it was cheaper. Even then I thought to myself that it was not worth trading off being a homeowner in Florida with a relatively low mortgage, to moving to the Seattle area and only afford to rent a small apartment. There was no way I was going to consider buying something in the area due to the high cost of housing. Maybe that is why you see many ads on craigslist in the rooms/shared section in Seattle. At this stage in my life I am not willing to give up what I have to live in shared housing for the "quality of life" of the area. What kind of quality of life would I have with little privacy and possibly jumping around from shared living situation to another. Well, I guess I could afford an apartment, but nice apartments are pricey in the area. Good thing is that prices have gone down substantially in the last 5 years.
I understand where you are coming from. I myself do not live in the Seattle area, but I am very familiar with the area having spent lots of time in the area. I understand factors such as quality of life, higher wages, etc., but for many people the GREAT INCREASE in housing does not justify the move even if there are many pros to living there. It is a matter of tradeoff and choice.
About 8 years ago while on one of my trips to Seattle, I was really looking at real estate prices in the area, particularly the east side since it was cheaper. Even then I thought to myself that it was not worth trading off being a homeowner in Florida with a relatively low mortgage, to moving to the Seattle area and only afford to rent a small apartment. There was no way I was going to consider buying something in the area due to the high cost of housing. Maybe that is why you see many ads on craigslist in the rooms/shared section in Seattle. At this stage in my life I am not willing to give up what I have to live in shared housing for the "quality of life" of the area. What kind of quality of life would I have with little privacy and possibly jumping around from shared living situation to another. Well, I guess I could afford an apartment, but nice apartments are pricey in the area. Good thing is that prices have gone down substantially in the last 5 years.
The quality of life here is nice, but I've seen better areas with more affordable housing. And in all honesty, there are a lot of things this area is missing. It's good to see someone can relate to me. I already own property in this area with my S.O.. Sometimes I wish we were still both in apartments so we could just keep saving up a down payment.
My dad told me to move out to a place like Everett or Monroe or Roy and just suck up a long commute. He can't wrap his head around these housing costs either and is under the impression that everyone around here is house poor and/or in severe amounts of debt. I know that can't be the case, considering that not only do most of the people around here live in these expensive homes, they drive expensive cars and go out to eat all of the time.
I just don't know how they do it. We can afford maybe $400,000 on a home, but that's a maximum. We need a yard. I can't live without one for another 5+ years while saving up. I also don't think it's worth it to buy the cheaper, fixer up homes because I know how that ends up. One of our friends did that in Sammamish and the house had pretty much everything wrong with it except for being a tear down. Needed over $100,000 of work, just to save him $100,000 on a house.
Sure his mortgage is lower but he had to get rid of a bug infestation, get a new roof, do some extensive work on the foundation, handle water damage, redo half of the piping in the house, gut the kitchen and bathrooms and redo them (water damage), and re-insulate half the rooms. The house had a mold problem and he found that when he stayed in the house for too long he got sick, so he's been in an apartment while all this work is being done in his house that was supposed to save him money.
I'm very terrified of that happening. I grew up in a cheap house in a nice neighborhood. Our house had so many things wrong with it and I want to get away from that. I understand there's a cost though! I hope it doesn't seem like I'm complaining, I'm just desperate to find a plan. I intend to keep saving up, keep my eye on the real estate costs over the next few years, and have a plan. Sometimes things are what they are, and you have to accept them.
I won't lie, I've been half tempted to just move to ugly Illinois near my S.O.'s family (where he grew up) because he can make almost the same amount of money and yet we'd have the kind of neighborhoods I'm looking for. The thing is, this is his dream job. He's got killer health care (which will stay with us after the wedding). I would rather make do in an overly expensive area while both of us work jobs we are absolutely in love with than move to some other area we can "afford" only to work jobs we hate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by civic94
its really the area and incomes. I lived in philadelphia before, and housing is much cheaper there, but the wages are much lower and unemployment is worse. also I have lived in boston, and spokane.
seattle area in general, does have boeing, microsoft, and amazon as its major employers, and the unemployment here is not as bad as other cities, hence the pricing is higher. I would say that housing in any city is directly related to the economy of that area. If boeing, microsoft, and amazon left seattle, you will see homes dropping 50% of what it is now.
if you really want, you can get a house for a few thousand dollars in detroit, but I dont think you will go far since its really hard to find a job there.
Job market is pretty good in NJ, too. I actually had an easier time finding jobs over there than I do over here. I could buy a decent house (in a decent neighborhood!) less than 15 minutes from New York City for a lot less than I could get one here. But here's the problem: the salaries don't change over there. If anything, they go up. People aren't making any more money here than they are in my hometown. My S.O. is a Microsoftie and we still don't know if we can afford it.
Technically, we could afford it, but we'd be putting 70% of our income every month towards a $500,000 mortgage. No thank-you! I was always taught to have a minimum 30% down payment and have the mortgage be less than 30% of a single person's income per month. I'm willing to accept the home prices and stay here, I just need to figure out a way without living in this town home for the rest of my life.
How much do you guys make? At current rates, a 400k mortgage will run around $2k/month, maybe a little less, I haven't done the math in a while. To keep that payment at under 28% of your gross pay (a common conservative mark), you would wanna be making around 85k/year. Median in the area is around $65k. Factor in tons of tech jobs that go much higher than $65k, and double income familes in a lot of these homes, and the prices kinda make sense. People make more here than they do in most other parts of the country.
No income tax here is nice, can't get that everywhere and it makes a difference. Obviously you're already here so that won't help you in particular, it made a difference to me, coming from out of state. Also, I know everyone loves to complain about taxes, but property taxes are relatively low here. That will make your overall house payment smaller than other states where the taxes are much higher (double or more), which pushes prices up here, since most people are monthly payment shoppers. A $400k home here is more like a $300k home in another state with higher property taxes, if you are looking at the monthly payment. I don't know what the property taxes are in NJ, but I'm guessing they are quite a bit higher than here.
Also, rates are really low right now. All of these factors make the high prices not quite as bad as they seem on the face.
I'm sure there are people that live somewhere that make, on average, less than the area you are from, and they probably say they would never pay what people pay for housing in your area. Just like I look at San Francisco and can't believe what people pay there. It's all relative.
I just googled NJ real estate near new york, and didn't see much below $400k for single family homes. (not a scientific study)
And if you want a yard for a lower price, you'll probably need to look at something at least 20 years old.
How much do you guys make? At current rates, a 400k mortgage will run around $2k/month, maybe a little less, I haven't done the math in a while. To keep that payment at under 28% of your gross pay (a common conservative mark), you would wanna be making around 85k/year. Median in the area is around $65k. Factor in tons of tech jobs that go much higher than $65k, and double income familes in a lot of these homes, and the prices kinda make sense. People make more here than they do in most other parts of the country.
No income tax here is nice, can't get that everywhere and it makes a difference. Obviously you're already here so that won't help you in particular, it made a difference to me, coming from out of state. Also, I know everyone loves to complain about taxes, but property taxes are relatively low here. That will make your overall house payment smaller than other states where the taxes are much higher (double or more), which pushes prices up here, since most people are monthly payment shoppers. A $400k home here is more like a $300k home in another state with higher property taxes, if you are looking at the monthly payment. I don't know what the property taxes are in NJ, but I'm guessing they are quite a bit higher than here.
Also, rates are really low right now. All of these factors make the high prices not quite as bad as they seem on the face.
I'm sure there are people that live somewhere that make, on average, less than the area you are from, and they probably say they would never pay what people pay for housing in your area. Just like I look at San Francisco and can't believe what people pay there. It's all relative. I just googled NJ real estate near new york, and didn't see much below $400k for single family homes. (not a scientific study)
Our combined income is higher, but we only factor in my S.O.'s income when looking for houses since I do a lot of freelance work and my income isn't stable from month to month (it's also not very high). He makes a little over $100,000. We'd have to save up a massive down payment though, and we want our mortgage to be under $2,000/mo. Our savings are not very high right now because we've been throwing all of our extra money towards extra mortgage payments. The major problem is not the monthly payment, it's that we'd need $120,000 down on a house minimum, preferably $150,000.
We'd have to save up half of that ourselves, which, while possible, would require a drastic lifestyle change. I don't mean eating out less. Drastic things like me putting my current career plan on hold (I'm a working student, working up to a paid position while doing freelance on the side for an income). I'm looking into getting a part time job in the meantime.
As for New Jersey, the property taxes are literally 3x as much as some areas around here, and 4x as much as I currently pay.
As for the age of the house, I don't mind older homes. What I mind is older homes that nobody took care of, which seems to be 70% of the homes around here under $500,000.
I actually did some research on this based on redfin, let me pull my findings. 1/4 an acre is more than .25 acres but less than .5 acres. 1/2 an acre is between .5 and 1 acres. 1 acre is a minimum of an acre. I did not include million dollar homes in this finding (that's where I capped my price).
Issaquah
1/4 Acre
Average Price: $533,000
Lowest Price: $357,000 (house was on a major intersection)
Highest Price: $689,000
Number of homes under 1mil: 4
1/2 Acre
Average Price: $537,000
Lowest Price: $300,000 (power lines going right over the property)
Highest Price: $800,000
Number of homes under 1mil: 11
1 Acre
Average Price: $525,000 (includes 5 tear downs and 2 land only lots)
Lowest Price: $175,000 (land)
Highest Price: $945,000
Number of homes under 1mil: 19
Bellevue
1/4 Acre
Average Price: $626,000
Lowest Price: $346,000
Highest Price: $968,000
Number of homes under 1mil: 24
Notes: most homes in severe need of updates.
1/2 Acre
Average Price: $616,000 (land and tear down)
Lowest Price: $150,000 (land)
Highest Price: $965,000
Number of homes under 1mil: 10
1 Acre
Average Price: $700,000
Lowest Price: $527,000
Highest Price: $798,000
Number of homes under 1mil: 5
Redmond
1/4 Acre
Average Price: $568,000
Lowest Price: $245,000 (tear down)
Highest Price: $775,000
Number of homes under 1mil: 8
Notes: Most of the houses needed some sort of repairs/updates.
1/2 Acre
Average Price: $664,000
Lowest Price: $446,000 (tear down)
Highest Price: $995,000
Number of homes under 1mil: 19
Notes: pretty sure half of these houses would be a lot cheaper if they weren't all 3000+ sqft.
1 Acre
Average Price: $568,000
Lowest Price: $150,000 (land)
Highest Price: $989,000
Number of homes under 1mil: 18
Notes: most in need of updating or had bad layouts that wouldn't work for me.
Sammamish
1/4 Acre
Average Price: $540,000
Lowest Price: $336,000
Highest Price: $900,000
Number of homes under 1mil: 18
1/2 Acre
Average Price: $554,000
Lowest Price: $275,000 (tear down)
Highest Price: $785,000
Number of homes under 1mil: 6
Notes: I hated every single house I looked at.
1 Acre
Average Price: $561,000
Lowest Price: $250,000 (land)
Highest Price: $950,000
Number of homes under 1mil: 14
Disclaimer: The reason I did .25 as a minimum was to avoid lots where the houses basically took up the entire lot. I did try going down to 6000 sqft but I ran into the issue of not having any sort of yard or privacy. I think houses smaller than .25 acres can have a usable yard, that just doesn't seem to be the case around here given the size of homes.
I don't think you'd NEED that much for down payment. If that's a personal requirement, then yup that could be tough. Anyway, if you want more for less, Renton isn't that far away. East Renton highlands even gets you in Issaquah schools. There's always a trade off, for everything.
Keep in mind, inventory is terrible right now. I just looked at east Renton highlands. There's not many listings, and the good ones are already pending. Might have better luck next year.
Right size, in decent shape, big yard, not far away.
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