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Originally Posted by Casportsfan "I agree 100%. Man, I really do LOVE that city. I have been there so many times, even as a kid when the old Kingdome was there to watch Seahawks games, but some of the people there are full of themselves.
Lol it's almost sad that the people there think that grunge look is the cool thing. It's really like a running joke to the rest of the country, honestly. And what's up with the "dark sunglasses in foggy weather" look too? I've seen that since I was a kid and never got it. I guess that means you are really heavy and dissafected."
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________________ Grunge as a look can be very fashionable if done right. Vogue, Elle, and even Nordstom's catalog showed it done in a very chic way this past fall. The difference is whether or not you care about how you look when presenting yourself publicly.
As for the sunglasses, I wear them in that type of weather and I am from east coast. If it's windy the glasses protect your eyes from having something hit them and when it is overcast it provides UV protection. My mom hated this when I was growing up and we used to fight about it all the time. The she got cataracts at a relatively young age and found out from the doctor that cataracts are caused by years of UV damage. He told her to start wearing them even when it is cloudy.
Seattle could and would be a gem of a city and no one would want to leave if it could get over this Freeze (Ice/Nice) culture.
As an aside, I just spent the past two month's working in Philadelphia and my company wanted to know if I was interested in relocating there. I did my usual thing, checked the city out and asked a lot of questions to both transplants and locals. Not one local ignored me, were social and sincere and when I asked questions, they were quite helpful. Even when the question was "What is with all of the spitting?" They actually laughed about it and point blank told me they didn;t know why but they know it's not an endearing quality of the city, a really bad habit and image issue. Go figure!!! Totally different from the responses I recieved in Seattle. There they were highly offended even when they asked if I had experienced what they called "the so-called freeze"
Yeah, I am still at a cross roads when it comes to wanting to move there. I really understand the Washington culture - it's just not as open as other areas, especially when compared to here in California. I think a lot of it has to do with the weather - here in Sacramento, the city is alive for most of the year because it is SUNNY and HOT most of the year. There are music festivals, street markets, vendors out by the droves, and on any given weekday you can find people out at all hours dining in outdoor seating; the restaurant/bar scene is really big here for MOST of the year. When it's raining, the city completely shuts down for the most part though.
So, I think the weather has something to do with the culture. I think also that maybe the diversity of the city itself has a little to do with the lack of openness. In northern cali there are so many different ethniciites and cultures, ways of thinking, etc. that you just get used to being open to meeting other people and opening up to them. Although Seattleites like to think the area is very diverse, it's really not when compared to other cities such as SF or NY. Funny thing, last time my friend and I were up we both commented on how "whitebread" the area was. Having lived in Eastern Wa. for years, I definitely know that the clichiness is not just a myth.
I agree about the relaxed grunge look. It can have it's place. But, people I know from here have moved up to Portland and Seattle and the next time you see them they look damn near homeless - wool hats, gloves, faded out T-shirts - I'm sorry but the ONLY time that was vogue was when a young Kurt Kobain happened to slip upon fame, and had he not, I'm sure most would have taken him for, well, damn near homeless. It was never cool before that. There is stylish, and then there is just plain letting yourself go. Now LAYNE STALEY, he NAILED the style. That dude was cool, dressed down, but still looked like he took a shower now and again.
Seattle is and always will be one of my favorite cities. I really hope these tales of indifference and could shoulder vibe are not true, because even if I stay there just a year or two, I'd really like to enjoy my time. I did notice one thing on my last trip that was not all that encouraging - I happened upon Pikes Place, which I was sure would just be the melting pot where everyone would be mingling, making conversation, and just in an overall good mood. Ony problem was, NO ONE was making any eye contact, and half the people weren't even smiling. The few times I did try to make some conversation didn't lead to much.
I think it's hard to make friends in this world now PERIOD, with the internet, cell phones, etc., so I'm not sure if this phenomena is specific to Seattle. I get numbers here in Sacramento and it leads to nowhere half the time. But, I definitely don't want to be in a place where the overall vibe is down. I'd at least like to feel like I CAN make some good friends if I put out the effort. which I do feel here.
So is the "freeze" an overall attitude, or is it just a tough time getting to know people who are cool upfront. If it is the latter, I really don't have too much of a problem with that. I think it's pretty rough making close friends anywhere.
I look at this way. A place a region a city has every right to display certain personality traits. Some of these traits may be desirable and some undesirable. However again that is its populations right.
I also find Seattle as well as Portland for that matter very aloof in the friendly dept. I don't completely know if its a cultural thing, it does seem extremely introverted here. Also its not all the population but the zombie like behavior is in a very high percentage. So high it is a red warning flag.
The last thing people need when moving to a new area is this type behavior. To ask a simple question to strangers say at a bus stop or on transit or in a store and be snubbed is bad enough. When that newcomer notices a pattern of this behavior as well as very high numbers of homeless, and very noticeable neglected social problems its gone further than a red flag. That newcomer is obviously going to feel this region has a very I don't care attitude and a very high percentage of have and have nots. Yes I feel this freeze isn't just about depressing weather, I feel it has something to do with attitudes towards classes of people here, since this area is very categorized by ages, incomes and social status.
Again Seattle and the Northwest have every right to their personality traits. Those that move here that don't care for these traits have an obligation to themselves to get out when they can get out. Such as when this economy improves and it is safer to do so. In the meantime don't hate Seattle, learn from the experience how culturally different each region of the country can be. Some cultures may not be ones cup of tea so to speak.
Yeah, I am still at a cross roads when it comes to wanting to move there. I really understand the Washington culture - it's just not as open as other areas, especially when compared to here in California. I think a lot of it has to do with the weather - here in Sacramento, the city is alive for most of the year because it is SUNNY and HOT most of the year. There are music festivals, street markets, vendors out by the droves, and on any given weekday you can find people out at all hours dining in outdoor seating; the restaurant/bar scene is really big here for MOST of the year. When it's raining, the city completely shuts down for the most part though.
Everything you've said about Sacramento, is true of Seattle, to a much larger degree, except the city doesn't shut down when it's raining. I've been to Sacramento, the streets were dead almost everywhere downtown. It's not an urban-feeling city whatsoever; On any given day there is much more pedestrian traffic and activity going on in downtown Seattle as compared to Sacramento. On nice sunny days, there are a few more people out, and it feels that much more alive.
Everything you've said about Sacramento, is true of Seattle, to a much larger degree, except the city doesn't shut down when it's raining. I've been to Sacramento, the streets were dead almost everywhere downtown. It's not an urban-feeling city whatsoever; On any given day there is much more pedestrian traffic and activity going on in downtown Seattle as compared to Sacramento. On nice sunny days, there are a few more people out, and it feels that much more alive.
Never been to Sactown, but I've heard people say it's sort of like Olympia when comparing size and recreation options...
I wouldn't necessarily compare it to Olympia...It's more of a SLC type city...An NBA team, a moderately sized downtown area with not much street life, a 9-5 type town.
Everything you've said about Sacramento, is true of Seattle, to a much larger degree, except the city doesn't shut down when it's raining. I've been to Sacramento, the streets were dead almost everywhere downtown. It's not an urban-feeling city whatsoever; On any given day there is much more pedestrian traffic and activity going on in downtown Seattle as compared to Sacramento. On nice sunny days, there are a few more people out, and it feels that much more alive.
Actually you would think Sacramento was like that if you only viewed downtown. NO ONE hangs out in downtown, it's not like a downtown in most cities of a 2 mil metro population. I've only been here 2 years (used to live near San Francisco) and I got the same vibe when initially entering the town. But, you quickly realize that NOTHING is downtown and everything goes on in Midtown, which borders downtown.
I'm not one to really hail this city, because honestly, I don't like the weather (way too hot) and it's kind of dusty and flat here, but the nightlife is really almost second to none. After being here a month or two I realized there is literally a bar or restaurant on every corner, people out at all hours even on weekdays (again when it is sunny). Downtown is probably the only place that you'd NOT want to be here, so that's a terrible berometer to use for the city.
Coming back from my last trip to Seattle, my favorite city, I actually told my parents "you know, I complain about Sacramento, but there is way more going on here than in Seattle as far as nightlife" - which I believe is true. Now, this comment comes from my experiences in Belltown and downtown Seattle, I believe it was "Pioneer Square".
I'm not big on the bar scene or nightlife anymore, so this is not a knock on the city, but the bars that locals suggested were a bit second rate. For instance, several people told my friend and I to head to this place called the "Viceroy" in Belletown. The vibe was dull, the energy level in this place and most others was low, and people didn't seem to be all that into just kicking it and having fun.
In San Francisco there are any number of bars where you'll run into a girl and her friend, or a couple visiting from England or Australia or something, and you just make random conversation and end up kicking it for the night. The vibe I got in Seattle was overwhelmingly "I'm here with my 5 friends, and if I don't know you don't talk to me". That was just my impression.
Again, my thoughts on moving there are based on the unbelievable scenery, the artistic vibe, the weather (I actually like the haze), and just the overall feeling I get while being there. I don't plan on frequenting bars all that much if I do move there, but I'd like to feel accepted and that I fit in and can just mill around if I don't know anyone.
I am starting to wonder if that will be the case now after reading all of these posts. Some Seattleites were really cool to me, but then again I have to think that the girl that cut my hair may have been working for a tip lol.
What I like about Sac is that random people continue to just walk by me and smile and say hi when I am out; it still keeps suprising me, but it happens 5-10 times everyday. Sometimes we engage in conversation, sometimes not, but it still FEELS GOOD.
I noticed some of that friendliness in Kirkland, Wa. too. Is Seattle really that closed off as some are suggesting here? If so, I'm really going to think twice about my move.
I wouldn't necessarily compare it to Olympia...It's more of a SLC type city...An NBA team, a moderately sized downtown area with not much street life, a 9-5 type town.
Dude, that quote is laughable. The downtown of every city is not necessarily the place you want to be. Maybe it is in Seattle, I don't know, but San Fran is pretty weak downtown as well, and that city has the most restaurants and bars per capita BY FAR for any city in the U.S. If you come to Sacramento on the second Saturday of each month (aside from about 4 months in winter), about a 14 block area no more than a mile east of downtown completely shuts down for live bands, art exhibits, etc. It's pretty damn cool.
Sac anything but a "9-5" town. I had that impression before I moved here too. Newsweek rated it the most ethnically diverse city in the US a couple years ago. That is, it's the only city in america where there is no racial majority. There is so much art and culture here, it would shock you, as it did me.
If it weren't for the fact that I like Seattle so much and want to give it a try, I'd probably stay here a long time. The music scene jumps off, there's a million and one places to go, etc. Hopefully you are right about the Seattle vibe as well. I think any place can probably be cool once you get to know people.
I look at this way. A place a region a city has every right to display certain personality traits. Some of these traits may be desirable and some undesirable. However again that is its populations right.
I also find Seattle as well as Portland for that matter very aloof in the friendly dept. I don't completely know if its a cultural thing, it does seem extremely introverted here. Also its not all the population but the zombie like behavior is in a very high percentage. So high it is a red warning flag.
The last thing people need when moving to a new area is this type behavior. To ask a simple question to strangers say at a bus stop or on transit or in a store and be snubbed is bad enough. When that newcomer notices a pattern of this behavior as well as very high numbers of homeless, and very noticeable neglected social problems its gone further than a red flag. That newcomer is obviously going to feel this region has a very I don't care attitude and a very high percentage of have and have nots. Yes I feel this freeze isn't just about depressing weather, I feel it has something to do with attitudes towards classes of people here, since this area is very categorized by ages, incomes and social status.
Again Seattle and the Northwest have every right to their personality traits. Those that move here that don't care for these traits have an obligation to themselves to get out when they can get out. Such as when this economy improves and it is safer to do so. In the meantime don't hate Seattle, learn from the experience how culturally different each region of the country can be. Some cultures may not be ones cup of tea so to speak.
Very good points. Everytime that I've been to Portland or Seattle, I notice an incredibly slower vibe than what I'm used to. You literally feel it when you get off of the plane in the airport.
I was shocked and pleasantly suprised how clean and slow downtown Seattle was. My friend and I both looked at each other and were like "Wow, this is SO much different than San Fran. downtown, where are all the cars, where is all the garbage Lol, look at these trees"! I guess it depends on what you are used to.
I kind of like the laid back vibe. Actually I like it a lot, but I don't want to be snubbed. My experiences there are too random to really know if I ran into an loser on a bad day or if everyday is like that. I met nice people and standoffish people as well, too hard to judge based upon my 20 or so trips there.
One thing my friend who lives in San Francisco continually commented on was the slower vibe and lack of energy. Our last day was spent driving around in Queen Anne. I wanted to check it out for the scenery, coffee shops, etc., and he was still looking to kick it with the sterio on, just crusing, talking to people, etc. The last comment that I remember from here is when he said, "I could NOT live here, what are these people DOING? Dude, it's so slow, you can't talk to anyone".
Now he said that without any prepping from me, no comment about the freeze (which I even didn't know existed 4 months ago on that trip). It was just an honest, unbiased assessment. He thought the bars were incredibley weak, and he didn't like Belletown or Pioneer Square.
Maybe the way you put it is best. Since I am a little older now I don't think I'd mind a slower vibe and a more relaxed town. Maybe I don't need the constant socializing any longer. And maybe the people are a little more introverted there. I still think it has a ton to do with the weather. Put a little sunshine ANYWHERE and people come out, and they come out usually in a good mood (see Hawaii).
For some of us introverts, meeting new people and making small talk is exhausting. When I go to a bar with my friends, I want to hang out with them: I know them, I can be comfortable with them and relax with a glass of wine. Having some stranger come up to me while I'm trying to catch up with my friends would ruin my night.
There are appropriate venues for meeting new people: mixers, meet-ups, etc. Crashing someone's party at the wine bar is not one of them.
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lol.
