Official "Seattle Freeze" Discussion Thread (Issaquah, North Bend: to rent, upkeep)
Seattle areaSeattle and King County Suburbs
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I have to agree with SonicsFan93 on this one Dweeby. I think you just got the wrong person. At every store, or place I go to, its been nice. A How are you, or when you tell them your new to the area, they want to know all about where you moved from, do you have a job yet, well, this place, or that place is hiring. We had one cashier at Fred Meyers that was a little 'cold' but it seemed more her personality than anything.
Other wise, the guest services at Target, cashiers at Target, Safeway, QFC, Whole Foods, general workers at QFC, and Whole Foods, Counter people at Ivars, lady at the Airport Jobs Office, general people on the street at the Skillet trailer, others in my apartment complex have all been fairly nice, informative, happy, and helpful. Granted, I was not trying to make friends at the time, or invite them over for dinner, but I really have yet to see a 'Freeze' or coldness that is above and beyond where I came from. Sure, i have run into a few less than savory people, but actually less than I would have in the same amount of time in my old place.
Even just sitting here at the mall food court, using the free wi-fi till our cable and internet are hooked up, I look around, and see happy, cheerful people. Granted, this is not a dreary depressing place, but everyone seems happy. But then, maybe they are all on Prozac, and just enjoying the absolutely beautiful weather lately.
And I think that mayb esome peopl ejust have bad luck and run into un happy people more than others, or in the case of VeronikaW (?) the WoW player, I think it was just that the group of 6-8 friends, all through high school, and college, were just so tight knit, that they didn't want an outsider. I also don't really think that using WoW players is a great benchmark of an entire city. I used to play WoW myself, occasionally, adn until recently, and the group of people from Seattle I played with were telling me how they get to gether, adn even said if I make it out here, that I am welcome to come.
All in all, its hwo you put yourself out there, the attitude you have, and what you expect. if you expect the freeze, you'll get it. Not saying everyone is bad tempered, some are just unlucky, or maybe people just truly as welcoming as those of Mayberry, or where ever you may be from. Think of it what you will, but take it or leave it. I also think that how you are gettign along in a place defines how you feel. There was one guy looking for a job, only in certain areas, only in a certain field, and couldn't find any. He was miserable, and constantly berating Seattle, the area, the weather, the people, and this "freeze". To quote a great book, You reap what you Sow.
I was speaking to a neighbor of mine the other day and as she is a transplant (coincidently moved here in '91 when I did) I asked her if she experienced "the freeze". She told me when she moved here, she was single, and felt that people were outwardly nice, but difficult to get to know. She thought that many felt she was after something more than "friends". Eventially, she got involved in various actvities and began to make friends. When she met her husband a few years later (also a transplant) they got involved in more actvities and things really changed for the better. As I related my more positive experience, she asked if I was paired up when I moved here. I had to say yes.
She proposed that it may have something to do with whether or not we are partnered. This is not to say this would be every one's experience or that being paired is the solution, but it was an intriguing theory. Perhaps, just perhaps, when one is alone, one becomes focused on relieving that loneliness. Does one in this situation unwittingly exhibit subtle behavior that is misinterpreted? Generally, couples have each other to fall back on and will exude a certain confidence that a lot of singles can't draw on. I admit, I don't know the answer to this. I'm sure there are couples that experienced "the freeze", and singles that haven't.
I was speaking to a neighbor of mine the other day and as she is a transplant (coincidently moved here in '91 when I did) I asked her if she experienced "the freeze". She told me when she moved here, she was single, and felt that people were outwardly nice, but difficult to get to know. She thought that many felt she was after something more than "friends". Eventially, she got involved in various actvities and began to make friends. When she met her husband a few years later (also a transplant) they got involved in more actvities and things really changed for the better. As I related my more positive experience, she asked if I was paired up when I moved here. I had to say yes.
She proposed that it may have something to do with whether or not we are partnered. This is not to say this would be every one's experience or that being paired is the solution, but it was an intriguing theory. Perhaps, just perhaps, when one is alone, one becomes focused on relieving that loneliness. Does one in this situation unwittingly exhibit subtle behavior that is misinterpreted? Generally, couples have each other to fall back on and will exude a certain confidence that a lot of singles can't draw on. I admit, I don't know the answer to this. I'm sure there are couples that experienced "the freeze", and singles that haven't.
Thoughts?
Interesting idea.....I'm curious to hear people's experience with this.
I can only speak anecdotally, but my spouse and I moved to Seattle together and we both found the culture to be reserved, both when we interacted individually and as a couple.
However, we may not be the greatest example, as we made friends pretty easily (i.e., did not experience "the freeze") but did experience a lot of the "reserved to the point of being rude" that is also discussed on this thread.
I was speaking to a neighbor of mine the other day and as she is a transplant (coincidently moved here in '91 when I did) I asked her if she experienced "the freeze". She told me when she moved here, she was single, and felt that people were outwardly nice, but difficult to get to know. She thought that many felt she was after something more than "friends". Eventially, she got involved in various actvities and began to make friends. When she met her husband a few years later (also a transplant) they got involved in more actvities and things really changed for the better. As I related my more positive experience, she asked if I was paired up when I moved here. I had to say yes.
She proposed that it may have something to do with whether or not we are partnered. This is not to say this would be every one's experience or that being paired is the solution, but it was an intriguing theory. Perhaps, just perhaps, when one is alone, one becomes focused on relieving that loneliness. Does one in this situation unwittingly exhibit subtle behavior that is misinterpreted? Generally, couples have each other to fall back on and will exude a certain confidence that a lot of singles can't draw on. I admit, I don't know the answer to this. I'm sure there are couples that experienced "the freeze", and singles that haven't.
Thoughts?
When I moved here in 1995, I was single and have been pretty much single since them. You might be on to something here. Being alone and seeking friendship kind of brings on a sense of desperation in some that others might notice? Whereas if you are with someone you do not have that depth of "desperation" in finding a friend...
For me, making friends is something I don't just do arbitrarily. Being in college, I had to be in classes with other persons, it took some kind of event, or me landing in a certain place and sticking around long enough to make friends.
I, like many people, moved here to experience city life and some form of sophistication. When newbies show up with their suburban habits, its kind of a pain to befriend them and wait for them to transition out of that mindset into an urban personality. It takes too much time, too much effort and its why you left the suburbs in the first place. They're going to hound you to go to the Cheesecake Factory for a bite, they're going to wear stupid clothes out in public with you, they're going to say embarrassing things in public and in bars and make you look bad. In my experience they use the wrong slurs, loudly, in the wrong neighborhoods. They converse with or yell at bums and homies when they're drunk. They put on bad hip-hop music at your parties. They tip over potted plants in Westlake Center. They swear loudly in cocktail bars and end up getting you dirty looks all night from other patrons. They have NO idea how to dress for the occasion. They don't like walking. They don't understand why the girls/guys don't hit on them. They whine about how much its costing them to own a car and live in the city. You have to entertain them (they will never tell you about the latest hotspot because they rely on you to know it). So basically you're a babysitter. You gain nothing. Better just to smile politely and move on. It they think theres a Freeze, then they obviously can't cut it here and they need to go back to Lake Stevens.
I, like many people, moved here to experience city life and some form of sophistication. When newbies show up with their suburban habits, its kind of a pain to befriend them and wait for them to transition out of that mindset into an urban personality. It takes too much time, too much effort and its why you left the suburbs in the first place. They're going to hound you to go to the Cheesecake Factory for a bite, they're going to wear stupid clothes out in public with you, they're going to say embarrassing things in public and in bars and make you look bad. In my experience they use the wrong slurs, loudly, in the wrong neighborhoods. They converse with or yell at bums and homies when they're drunk. They put on bad hip-hop music at your parties. They tip over potted plants in Westlake Center. They swear loudly in cocktail bars and end up getting you dirty looks all night from other patrons. They have NO idea how to dress for the occasion. They don't like walking. They don't understand why the girls/guys don't hit on them. They whine about how much its costing them to own a car and live in the city. You have to entertain them (they will never tell you about the latest hotspot because they rely on you to know it). So basically you're a babysitter. You gain nothing. Better just to smile politely and move on. It they think theres a Freeze, then they obviously can't cut it here and they need to go back to Lake Stevens.
Wow, dude, anti-suburb much??
Although urban vs. suburban is an interesting idea for who reports the freeze and who doesn't, I'm guessing that it wouldn't account for very much variance. I'm curious what others have experienced though. Personally, I both lived and worked in the city limits, and I still found the reserve/freeze characteristics there.
I, like many people, moved here to experience city life and some form of sophistication. When newbies show up with their suburban habits, its kind of a pain to befriend them and wait for them to transition out of that mindset into an urban personality. It takes too much time, too much effort and its why you left the suburbs in the first place. They're going to hound you to go to the Cheesecake Factory for a bite, they're going to wear stupid clothes out in public with you, they're going to say embarrassing things in public and in bars and make you look bad. In my experience they use the wrong slurs, loudly, in the wrong neighborhoods. They converse with or yell at bums and homies when they're drunk. They put on bad hip-hop music at your parties. They tip over potted plants in Westlake Center. They swear loudly in cocktail bars and end up getting you dirty looks all night from other patrons. They have NO idea how to dress for the occasion. They don't like walking. They don't understand why the girls/guys don't hit on them. They whine about how much its costing them to own a car and live in the city. You have to entertain them (they will never tell you about the latest hotspot because they rely on you to know it). So basically you're a babysitter. You gain nothing. Better just to smile politely and move on. It they think theres a Freeze, then they obviously can't cut it here and they need to go back to Lake Stevens.
I am quite speechless. And yet your statement has a slight of truth. I watched a program about young people from "yuppie" neighborhoods who go into blue collar bars and act loudly. One man put it like this "They come up in here acting wild, they're just yuppies, they're not us. They probably wouldn't act like this in their own neighborhoods, so they come here to do it".
On that note I really don't know if that is really true of most suburbanites.
I, like many people, moved here to experience city life and some form of sophistication. When newbies show up with their suburban habits, its kind of a pain to befriend them and wait for them to transition out of that mindset into an urban personality. It takes too much time, too much effort and its why you left the suburbs in the first place. They're going to hound you to go to the Cheesecake Factory for a bite, they're going to wear stupid clothes out in public with you, they're going to say embarrassing things in public and in bars and make you look bad. In my experience they use the wrong slurs, loudly, in the wrong neighborhoods. They converse with or yell at bums and homies when they're drunk. They put on bad hip-hop music at your parties. They tip over potted plants in Westlake Center. They swear loudly in cocktail bars and end up getting you dirty looks all night from other patrons. They have NO idea how to dress for the occasion. They don't like walking. They don't understand why the girls/guys don't hit on them. They whine about how much its costing them to own a car and live in the city. You have to entertain them (they will never tell you about the latest hotspot because they rely on you to know it). So basically you're a babysitter. You gain nothing. Better just to smile politely and move on. It they think theres a Freeze, then they obviously can't cut it here and they need to go back to Lake Stevens.
Sounds like you're speaking of a small subset of people, namely suburban youth. This is a group still trying to define themselves and their place in society. Once they do, they will stay or move on.
The suburbs, though different in their own right, will still have the general flavor of the core city. I would guess those from other regions will more likely see the freeze in a regional perspective.
You say people in NM and AZ are "very cliquish, unwelcoming, unfriendly, and intolerant of opposing views". It sounds like you lived in the cities. It is different in most smaller communities. I live in a *rural* community, too small to be considered a village. Most of the residents are from families who've been here for generations and they are all related to each other in some way. As newcomers, we were surprised how welcoming everyone has been. We had 4 invitations to Christmas dinner the first year here! And when there's a crisis (or celebration) in the community, everyone works together. I have seen no problem with intolerance. Albuquerque, Phoenix, and Seattle are are big cities with big city problems.
I don't know where you live in NM but that's great to get 4 invitations for Christmas! I've heard that SE New Mexico is very friendly perhaps that's where you are. I agree w/ you - here in the SW, the more "rural" the area can definitely mean that it's more friendly. For example, many SMALL towns in Western Colorado such as Durango are very friendly.
But when you get to college towns that lean FAR to the left such as Santa Fe, Flagstaff, and the University area in Albuquerque, some (not all!) people are cliquish, and these folks 9 times out of 10 are generally rich liberal Elitists on the far left. There's virtually no Middle Class in these towns, and in my experience, the Elite Far Left doesn't like the working class.
The Elite Far Left in Santa Fe and Flagstaff have their smart growth agendas and impact fees. These policies drive up the cost of housing for the blue collar middle class families.They are not pro-middle class, pro-union liberals that you or I would recognize from Capitol Hill or the U District (liberal neighborhoods in Seattle, that is). I don't know if Seattle has smart growth and impact fees or not, but at least there is a HUGE blue collar middle class!
As a result of Smart Growth and Impact Fees (and other reasons), Flag and Santa Fe don't have enough affordable housing! Stores like Costco aren't there; Costco, Superwallmart, and others COULD provide cheap food and prescription drugs. Flagstaff and Santa Fe are the most desirable mountain towns in AZ and NM, yet at the same time, the most expensive places in their respective states -- because of lack of affordable housing and cheap stores.
Compare this to Seattle where at least 70% of the Grocery receipts go to Unionized Grocery Stores where people are making $15/hour (Fred Meyer, Costco, Safeway, etc.). Down here in AZ/NM, it's Superwallmart, Bashas, Smiths, Safeway, Fryes, Albertsons, etc. w/ limited Union representation and low wages.
In WA, I would vote Democratic, but in AZ/NM, I would vote Republican since the Democrats are terribly anti-growth, anti-business, and they drive the cost of housing for working families through the roof with their Smart Growth and Impact Fees. These AZ/NM Democrats are not Liberals or Progressives; they are Regressives with their Regressive Impact Fees and Carbon Taxes. They are not Mike Malloy or Dennis Kucinich Democrats, if you know what I mean.
In Seattle, Democrats are pro-business, naturally, since big Northwest Native corporations such as Costco, Fred Meyer, and REI are companies with Liberal Values. NOBODY ever complains in suburbs of Seattle if Costco or Fred Meyer wants to come in! As long as Costco and Fred Meyer trade their wetlands, the Environmentalists (Myself Included!) look forward to eating 8 pound tins of Costco "Kirkland Supreme" Almonds, and viewing fabulous panel displays of computers and big screen LCD's.
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