Official "Seattle Freeze" Discussion Thread

[Vells]

I wanted to comment on just one aspect of Seattle on this thread: the expectation that strangers be amicable to striking up random conversations in public.

While this doesn't address elements of work and social life, I can see why people in Seattle don't converse easily with strangers in public. I've noticed that almost every time someone I don't know tries to initiate a conversation (in line at a store, etc) their intentions are to ask for something ("got any change?" "can I get a ride somewhere?" "would you sign this petition?," hand you a religious pamphlet, etc).

I'm not saying this only happens in Seattle -- panhandlers and people pushing agendas are everywhere, but I've noticed it more often in Seattle and its suburbs than where I've lived before (in any city, it's expected in certain parts of town, but I never really encountered suburban panhandlers until I moved here) and think that's one reason why people are disengaged from others in public. Not even all of the panhandlers look like panhandlers: given the fact that people dress casually in Seattle, anyway, and Seattle tends to provide good services to the homeless, some panhandlers just blend in.

From personal experience, when I first moved here, I learned quickly that some panhandlers or people with other agendas are clever enough to use the pretext of friendly small talk as a lead in before asking for whatever it is they're trying to do. I had someone try the religious pamphlet thing at a gas station (started with "can you believe the price of gas?" and ended with her trying to hand me a little religious pamphlet she was carrying ) the first week I was here. I've encountered a lot of panhandlers both in the city and suburbs who will try similar things -- usually outside of a store or gas station -- in order to lead into a request for spare change. When I had my first apartment in Kirkland, someone knocked on my door claiming at first to be new to the neighborhood, asking about where the best grocery store nearby was, but who turned out to be selling magazine subscriptions for a shady looking fundraising organization.

So, with this type of thing being fairly common, you learn to be on the defensive in public and why I think small talk is generally avoided (aside from usually being a banal form of conversation in the first place).

[BereniceUK]

I was walking round Seattle city centre one day, a couple of months ago; twice, when I stopped to check my map, I was asked if I needed any help by people who I assume were locals.

Can't remember ever experiencing that before anywhere else.

[Patron of Wrath]

This is what we do in Tampa when people ask for directions...

Tampa police: Marine reservist attacked Greek priest he mistook for terrorist - St. Petersburg Times

[Vells]

Originally Posted by BereniceUK

I was walking round Seattle city centre one day, a couple of months ago; twice, when I stopped to check my map, I was asked if I needed any help by people who I assume were locals.

Can't remember ever experiencing that before anywhere else.

Seattle has a reputation for being one of the U.S. cities with the most polite and helpful people. What some speculate (for pages and pages, it seems) is how much that friendliness is an overture for actual friendship rather than a sense of obligation to be polite with others. Minneapolis has a similar reputation (interestingly, Minneapolis and Seattle also both consistently score high in the categories of education and "literacy" -- meaning not so much the ability to read but how often people read based on the number of libraries, bookstores, papers in circulation, etc).

[gnab gib]

Originally Posted by Vells

Seattle has a reputation for being one of the U.S. cities with the most polite and helpful people. What some speculate (for pages and pages, it seems) is how much that friendliness is an overture for actual friendship rather than a sense of obligation to be polite with others.

One thing that immediately struck me was the politeness of drivers in Seattle, at least compared to what I'm used to. My wife and I were walking down around Pioneer Square, admittedly a little lost and disoriented, and when we were crossing the street, neither one of us saw a car coming. But instead of laying on his horn and flipping us the bird as he zoomed past us -- which is pretty much what you'd get out here in metro D.C. -- he slowly rolled to a stop and motioned us across.

And although I like an environment where people leave me alone unless I want to talk to them, I did notice when we were on a city bus that folks who knew each other tended to be pretty talkative. One guy saw another guy he obviously knew getting on the bus, and they sat and carried on for the half-hour or so that we were on there.

[Vells]

Originally Posted by gnab gib

One thing that immediately struck me was the politeness of drivers in Seattle, at least compared to what I'm used to. My wife and I were walking down around Pioneer Square, admittedly a little lost and disoriented, and when we were crossing the street, neither one of us saw a car coming. But instead of laying on his horn and flipping us the bird as he zoomed past us -- which is pretty much what you'd get out here in metro D.C. -- he slowly rolled to a stop and motioned us across.

And although I like an environment where people leave me alone unless I want to talk to them, I did notice when we were on a city bus that folks who knew each other tended to be pretty talkative. One guy saw another guy he obviously knew getting on the bus, and they sat and carried on for the half-hour or so that we were on there.

You picked up on the vibe! Yes, in all likelihood the people conversing on the bus have probably known each other for a long time and thus were comfortable engaging in a conversation.

You'll find it refreshing that there isn't an expectation set that you make eye contact with or speak to people. On the bus, you can immerse yourself in a book or your headphones and pleasantly tune out the world without the responsibility of driving.

I've heard that the Seattle bus system is world class and that is one of the reasons I think there hasn't been an investment in light rail sooner. We also have ferry service in Washington that is the largest in the U.S. and third largest in the world! If you enjoyed the bus, maybe one of the islands or penninsula served by the ferry would be appealing also.

[gnab gib]

Originally Posted by Vells

If you enjoyed the bus, maybe one of the islands or penninsula served by the ferry would be appealing also.

We took a ferry out to Bainbridge -- very enjoyable! We're also thinking about settling on Vashon Island, which would most likely mean a ferry ride every day. I suppose it could get old after a while, just like anything else, but I love the water ... not to mention the solitude that a sparsely populated island would offer.

[kateagain]

......I knew no one in the area, and would have appreciated an invite to just about anything. People that I met in the ordinary course of daily life, (at work, neighbors, on the bus, when shopping) to be very polite, but it stopped there.

I have lived in several large U.S. cities and easily made new friends. I expected to do the same in Seattle.

I joined an upscale health club and chatted with many other members, all very nice. Several told me that I would have a hard time making friends since most people are in established cliques and are very slow to let newcomers into the group. I thought it an odd comment since it was early into the conversation and pretty much all I said was that I was a new member and new to the area.

Time passed and their comments turned out to be correct. I thought that there must be something wrong me. I couldn't break into groups with whom I shared like interests even though I worked as a volunteer at their events.

I did a google search and found the Seattle-Freeze article. I felt vindicated.

I now have a group of friends. None of us are originally from the Seattle but had one thing in common: We all found it difficult to make friends when we moved to Seattle.

So is there such a thing as the "Seattle Freeze"? I'd say yes, but add that it can be thawed. It just takes time and effort!

[LawOfLoud]

Originally Posted by Vells

I wanted to comment on just one aspect of Seattle on this thread: the expectation that strangers be amicable to striking up random conversations in public.

While this doesn't address elements of work and social life, I can see why people in Seattle don't converse easily with strangers in public. I've noticed that almost every time someone I don't know tries to initiate a conversation (in line at a store, etc) their intentions are to ask for something ("got any change?" "can I get a ride somewhere?" "would you sign this petition?," hand you a religious pamphlet, etc).

I'm not saying this only happens in Seattle -- panhandlers and people pushing agendas are everywhere, but I've noticed it more often in Seattle and its suburbs than where I've lived before (in any city, it's expected in certain parts of town, but I never really encountered suburban panhandlers until I moved here) and think that's one reason why people are disengaged from others in public. Not even all of the panhandlers look like panhandlers: given the fact that people dress casually in Seattle, anyway, and Seattle tends to provide good services to the homeless, some panhandlers just blend in.

From personal experience, when I first moved here, I learned quickly that some panhandlers or people with other agendas are clever enough to use the pretext of friendly small talk as a lead in before asking for whatever it is they're trying to do. I had someone try the religious pamphlet thing at a gas station (started with "can you believe the price of gas?" and ended with her trying to hand me a little religious pamphlet she was carrying ) the first week I was here. I've encountered a lot of panhandlers both in the city and suburbs who will try similar things -- usually outside of a store or gas station -- in order to lead into a request for spare change. When I had my first apartment in Kirkland, someone knocked on my door claiming at first to be new to the neighborhood, asking about where the best grocery store nearby was, but who turned out to be selling magazine subscriptions for a shady looking fundraising organization.

So, with this type of thing being fairly common, you learn to be on the defensive in public and why I think small talk is generally avoided (aside from usually being a banal form of conversation in the first place).

I think you may have the cause and effect relationship backwards on this one. There's plenty of other cities with a good number of panhandlers (heck, the small town I live in right now isn't lacking for them), but there's no similar freeze like you get in Seattle. I've a hunch that the reason the only people who strike up conversations are those folks trying to get something, is probably related to the fact that the population at large won't do that. In other words, unlike every other left coast city I've been in where the panhandlers try to get stuff but everybody else still talks to you, because in Seattle nobody else wants to talk to you it comes across that the only people who do are panhandlers.

To be fair, I really do like Seattle. Were it not for the weather, I've little doubt I'd still be living there.

[Vells]

Originally Posted by LawOfLoud

I think you may have the cause and effect relationship backwards on this one. There's plenty of other cities with a good number of panhandlers (heck, the small town I live in right now isn't lacking for them), but there's no similar freeze like you get in Seattle. I've a hunch that the reason the only people who strike up conversations are those folks trying to get something, is probably related to the fact that the population at large won't do that. In other words, unlike every other left coast city I've been in where the panhandlers try to get stuff but everybody else still talks to you, because in Seattle nobody else wants to talk to you it comes across that the only people who do are panhandlers.

To be fair, I really do like Seattle. Were it not for the weather, I've little doubt I'd still be living there.

You may very well be correct here.