Official "Seattle Freeze" Discussion Thread (Everett, Pacific: lease, transfer to)

[stilldirrty]

I heard that most people "workout" which is part of the Seattle culture. That is what a Seattlite told me. I guess because it is murky 10 months of the year. And fitness keeps people from being too bored? From the depressing weather?

All though Seattle's weather is heaven to me!!

[robertpolyglot]

Originally Posted by Historyafficianado

The most common coping mechanisms for people in passive-aggressive environments is to try to change the culture (and lose that battle again and again), emotionally detach (and become more introverted themselves), or leave the situation. There could also be an assimilationist urge that makes some newcomers also adopt the passive aggressive approach when they see it commonly used by others.

An extremely intelligent post which describes the situation quite well. I used tactics 1 and 3.

Tactic 1: at a firm of under 15 people, I was "myself" ...thinking that, if I was fairly uninhibited, others would be, too. No chance. I was resented for stuff that used to bring down the house in LA or ATL. One event that disgusted me is how several workers were berating an elderly NJ Jewish woman who used to work there as a receptionist with comments like "she dressed like she was going on a cruise" or "she brought in food for people." I thought, "I like this broad." What they were describing is the "Rhoda" type character who, together with her mom, were the most likable characters on the old Mary Tyler Moore show (I was a kid then, but I remember the cast).

After 3 years of that, I decided it was time for Tactic (3) - sell the T.H. and leave.

[robertpolyglot]

Originally Posted by scirocco22

I've had people tell me that I'm open, warm, and friendly but maybe they were just telling me that to make me feel good. In their hearts, they knew I was closed, cold, and unfriendly.

All of you are eventually going to convince me that I'm closed, cold, and unfriendly. *sigh*

Not knowing your demographics, and it's not important, here's one possible quick test.

Say, you're in a place of work, and a new person joins up and they may be from CA, IL, or PA....and you think they're neat, in your gut...within a week or so, do you say "Hey, let's go out for lunch" or "Let's go get coffee" or anything like that.

Not just a one-shot, one-person deal, but as a HABIT. Then, if so, you are not a part of the "Freeze Patrol."

[kcda]

scirrocco: I'm sure you are a very nice person as are my in-laws from Seattle are but, as others have mentioned on this thread, you just grew up w/it so it doesn't seem so to you. My in-laws from Seattle and Portland I'm sure wouldn't "get it" either. You have to live somewhere else where people are friendly and open and uninhibited and then go to Seattle and try to fit in.

Two examples. Our in-laws took us to a holiday party in Seattle. Everyone was courteous but when we tried to be friendly and mingle around the room we found that they were very quiet, not at all warm and friendly. They seemed uptight and not willing to speak casually around us "outsiders". It became downright uncomfortable infact. Another time we went to Portland for my dh HS reunion. I'd never seen such a group of uptight, unfun people in my life! He mingled a bit and there were a few friendly people (most who had moved to other states and were back for the reunion) but the majority was again reserved and not friendly at all. I was not at all happy to have spent $ flying up to Portland, hotels, rental car for that kind of experience. In contrast my HS reunions are a blast. Even if we haven't seen each other in a decade everyone is welcoming and fun and this hospitality is extended to my dh.

[robertpolyglot]

Originally Posted by kcda

You have to live somewhere else where people are friendly and open and uninhibited and then go to Seattle and try to fit in.

Seattle.
They seemed uptight and not willing to speak casually around us "outsiders". It became downright uncomfortable infact.

Portland
reunion
but the majority was again reserved and not friendly at all.
In contrast my HS reunions are a blast.

It's all a matter of degrees. And sometimes, a few degrees can make a big difference.

A person hanging all over you or being too forward is gross. However, someone who just interacts you with you casually and does not have too many barriers is generally appreciated.

I can do a lot of foreign accent impersonations, the best of which is probably the Ricky Ricardo. Elsewhere, this quirk has been received with laughter and compliments as to its authenticity. Even in ATL, my office peers loved it. In the NW, it is viewed as racist...unless they were transplants.

One more thing, the people in the NW I worked with loved Seinfeld, for instance. However, if people like that worked amongst them, they would be very "put out." I would have welcomed co-workers like that, particularly Kramer and Costanzo!

[wannabeaTexan]

Originally Posted by kcda

scirrocco: I'm sure you are a very nice person as are my in-laws from Seattle are but, as others have mentioned on this thread, you just grew up w/it so it doesn't seem so to you. My in-laws from Seattle and Portland I'm sure wouldn't "get it" either. You have to live somewhere else where people are friendly and open and uninhibited and then go to Seattle and try to fit in.

Two examples. Our in-laws took us to a holiday party in Seattle. Everyone was courteous but when we tried to be friendly and mingle around the room we found that they were very quiet, not at all warm and friendly. They seemed uptight and not willing to speak casually around us "outsiders". It became downright uncomfortable infact. Another time we went to Portland for my dh HS reunion. I'd never seen such a group of uptight, unfun people in my life! He mingled a bit and there were a few friendly people (most who had moved to other states and were back for the reunion) but the majority was again reserved and not friendly at all. I was not at all happy to have spent $ flying up to Portland, hotels, rental car for that kind of experience. In contrast my HS reunions are a blast. Even if we haven't seen each other in a decade everyone is welcoming and fun and this hospitality is extended to my dh.

I'm with Scirocco...I don't think you wouldn't be able to identify cold and unwelcoming traits just because you grew up where supposedly everyone is like that.

I'm a friendly, polite person and I could be described as having a Seattle Freeze thing going on because I'm quiet (unless I know you well), don't talk to my neighbors really, etc, but I don't think that has anything to do with where I grew up. My mom thinks I get those traits from my father who is not from WA. And on her side of the family, most were born and raised here and are not like that.

About the reunion in Portland...I don't think the Seattle Freeze is supposed to encompass all of the PNW. Also, my mom graduated from Samammish High School and made the same comments about her reunion that you made about yours.

[seattlerain]

Since so much of this "Seattle Freeze" thing concerns making friends I thought that I'd do a search on the subject. Here are just some of the results

For those thinking about moving to San Diego - CLICK HERE

Making friends in DC for 20's and 30's

Making new friends in RI

Meeting people in Minneapolis...

Making friends (Pittsburgh, Rochester: home, work, friendly)

Making new friends and meeting people in San Diego

Making friends in Lancaster...

I tried to find at least one post from all regions of the country, surprisingly or not I didn't find any from the south, maybe I didn't look hard enough.

Until I did this search I was almost convinced by all the negative posts from transplants about how hard it is to make friends in Seattle that Seattle was somehow special in this regard.

[robertpolyglot]

Originally Posted by seattlerain

Since so much of this "Seattle Freeze" thing concerns making friends I thought that I'd do a search on the subject. Here are just some of the results

For those thinking about moving to San Diego - CLICK HERE

Meeting people in Minneapolis...


Making new friends and meeting people in San Diego

I tried to find at least one post from all regions of the country, surprisingly or not I didn't find any from the south, maybe I didn't look hard enough.

Until I did this search I was almost convinced by all the negative posts from transplants about how hard it is to make friends in Seattle that Seattle was somehow special in this regard.

I'm from LA and, though I love San Diego, I've always resisted moving there. The reason there is because there is probably a higher percentage of superficial people. My best college friend lives in SD, post divorce, and he is so happy to be free, that it's a good place for him...for now. However, when I talk to the people in the complex he lives in...and they are always outside and very easy to talk to...well, they seem like quintessential hedonistic sun-baked dolts. If I had to live in SD, I would choose to live in the more rural and further out suburbs rather than the in-town "way cool" places. I've heard that SD is a problem this way....not in making friends, per se, but in getting to any depth.

Minneapolis, c'mon....that's Seattle East, hon. In fact, I think it's that damn MSP-SEA pipeline that poisoned Seattle. My opinion, from what I've seen and heard of Minnesota culture.

[kcda]

I'm with Scirocco...I don't think you wouldn't be able to identify cold and unwelcoming traits just because you grew up where supposedly everyone is like that.

Sorry, I still don't think you see it. Try living somewhere else, where people are more open and friendly for 5 years then move back to Seattle.

I'm a friendly, polite person and I could be described as having a Seattle Freeze thing going on because I'm quiet (unless I know you well), don't talk to my neighbors really, etc,

Like Robert says, it's a matter of degrees. Maybe you don't think so but others from more friendly places might.

but I don't think that has anything to do with where I grew up. My mom thinks I get those traits from my father who is not from WA. And on her side of the family, most were born and raised here and are not like that.

That could be true for you but what I've read and experienced, there definately seems a consistent problem w/this in the PNW.

About the reunion in Portland...I don't think the Seattle Freeze is supposed to encompass all of the PNW.

Actually I've read on this thread and others, that it also exists in Portland.

[HistoryAficionado]

I'd like to reply collectively to a few comments here.

First, about the Pacific Northwest -- the so-called "Seattle freeze" isn't confined to the Seattle city limits or King County. I think it's prevalent in the Pacific Northwest generally. Also, I agree that comparisons to Minnesota are comparing two closely similar cultures.

Second, about people noticing or not. I posit that "cold and unwelcoming" or "passive aggressive and standoffish" are subjective characterisics. People who are brought up in a culture where it's the norm (to you "agreeing due to not wanting to look like the bad guy" but still not going along with what someone else wants may be "being nice" or being non-confrontational. To someone else, that's passive aggressive; to someone else, what's seen as "being friendly," to you, may seem obnoxious and "in your face") don't see their behavior as bad. In fact, they see it as the correct way to act and everyone else is "wrong."

I travel all over the country on a regular basis. In fact, to me, after moving to the Northwest, I see it as just the place where my house is. I do see a difference among people here compared to the South (obviously), California, Nevada, Texas, NY, etc. I'm not calling the NW out as a bad place, just saying that, yes, you do have a distinct culture that's pretty close to the Northern Midwest (Minnesota, Wisconsin, etc) in many ways, but markedly different from other parts of the nation.

There's no real solution to the "Seattle freeze" that I see other than adapting to it or moving somewhere more to your liking. People who emphatically deny that there is such a thing, or try to say that it's endemic to the whole nation and the people talking about it here are just complainers who have it in for Seattle, in my opinion, are just indignant that anything negative can be brought up by anyone about what they see as their home.

That's okay, too. Is it wrong to actually like the reserved, stoic behavior and stick to a close group of long time friends? Not necessarily. Is it wrong to keep your work life and personal life two separate things? Absolutely not. One thing I have noticed is that, for many people across the country, their job is also their social package. They make friends with co-workers and expect the same when they transfer to a new place or get a new job. In this area, I've found that people go home after work and don't socialize with their co-workers. This has the advantage of keeping people's personal lives out of their careers, but the disadvantage of closing the door to really getting to know people.

Likewise, in the neighborhood, I've seen that my neighbors, at least, scatter to different points of the WA map in the morning to go to work (East Side, Seattle, even some go to Everett), then come home and stay indoors (unless it's summer). We're courteous to each other, but typically don't go out of our way to hang out. Why? Defending their privacy maybe. One negative thing I noticed about my WA native neighbors is that they can be nosey. For example, I remember when I first moved in, I was working in my yard and heard my next door neighbor loudly ask her husband "what is he doing over there?!" I wasn't being loud, I was just removing a few bushes in the back yard (and not close to their yard at all) that I didn't like.

There's this sense among Washington people that, when you talk to them, they're keeping their proverbial cards close to their vests, meanwhile gathering enough information on you to make a judgement call.

The natives I've gotten to know through various venues are actually pretty cool. Smart, witty people, who really mean well, but definitely have a sense that it's their world and everyone else just kind of lives there. Almost like Seinfeld characters in a way (only quiet, not loud). One WA native woman I've met actually had this to say about Miami after she'd visited the first time, she noticed that it was "weird" because: people would strike up conversations for no reason. She also said she felt very attractive because men would show more interest in her when she went out -- she said she hardly ever gets approached for dates in Seattle (just my opinion, but she's a good looking woman, so it's not because she's unattractive).

So, there it is, even some natives notice a difference. Is it also hard to make friends in other places? Sure. Is Seattle also one of those places for its own set of reasons? You bet. The transplants are also kind of odd and don't behave like they did "back home" because, just my opinion, the Northwest is very subtle in its peculiarities and this throws them off.

How many transplants who post here have experienced being called "rude" in the NW for the first time in their adult lives -- without really knowing why you were being called that? Also, anyone else notice that courteousy here doesn't include some of the superficial phrases you're used to? How about this: you say "thanks" for whatever reason to someone and, in response, get a grunt or silence? Or that people don't excuse themselves when they brush past you -- ironically, if you walk by someone and say "excuse me" they look at you like you just insulted them?

I see this thread serving two purposes: one, it's a place for the people who've experienced this and have been affected by it to sort of vent. Two, for prospective transplants looking to move here, it may give them some food for thought. Many people feel that the force of their own personalities will overcome any social obstacle. If you can pass the "Seattle challenge" and not come away feeling like an obnoxious, rude misfit, then you're probably ready for prime time. If you're a quiet, reserved, introverted person yourself, and don't like people who are direct or "type A," loud behavior, or bawdy humor -- and if you're comfortable with just following the rules and behaving like everyone else -- then this could very well be the best place for you.