Official "Seattle Freeze" Discussion Thread (Dayton: medical, parking)

[seattlerain]

Originally Posted by Historyafficianado

Well, it's just one example of how, compared to the rest of the country, Seattle (unlike maybe a visit overseas to Japan or a place where consumer technology is further along) doesn't exactly wow anyone with its advanced technology and, in some cases, seems a little behind in that regard.

This is despite the tech industry having its presence here -- however, the technology provided by that industry isn't unique to the area, nor does it seem to permeate into daily life any more than other parts of the country.

Another example is self-service check in kiosks at Seattle's airport -- some airlines have it here and some don't, but it's pretty common across the board at many other airports. Meanwhile, we see news about "new kiosks" provided for our convenience (as recently as late last year).

I'm sorry, but I don't think that the car wash thing is a very good example. I've always viewed it as a "premium" sort of thing.

[seattlerain]

Originally Posted by wannabeaTexan

If we were technologically advanced, we wouldn't have an actual person running behind a car at the end of a car wash with a scrub brush. The car wash could do it all by itself.

And there are plenty of places that don't have attendants.

[wannabeaTexan]

Originally Posted by seattlerain

And there are plenty of places that don't have attendants.

Yes, and I personally prefer a person to help because the machine doesn't do a good enough job.

[toughguy]

I am not going to argue over someone's opinon, because thats what it is, an opinion. However, I will provide some examples of how Seattle is not some luddite backwoods town, and you can decide how to interpret that. Normally I hate it when people post links to "Top ______" lists to prove a point (it comes off as desperate and tacky), but I can't resist, this is like a hanging curveball.

Some of the material is a bit dated (2-3 years), so there is a chance that we have devolved into Dayton, OH between the time these articles were published and now.
Decaying roads is entirely irrelevant to this discussion.

2nd in forbes most wired cities:

America's Most Wired Cities - Forbes.com

New Seattle Central Library is on the cutting edge of technological advances:

New Seattle Central Library is on the cutting edge of technological advances

9th most advanced city:

How Did Your City Do? | Popular Science

[HistoryAficionado]

Originally Posted by toughguy

2nd in forbes most wired cities:

America's Most Wired Cities - Forbes.com

Okay

Originally Posted by toughguy

New Seattle Central Library is on the cutting edge of technological advances:

New Seattle Central Library is on the cutting edge of technological advances

Consider the local media source. In 2004, Seattle's library got things like "next generation book sorting"?! Wow. If Seattle just got indoor plumbing last week, the local papers would crow about it.

Originally Posted by toughguy

9th most advanced city:

How Did Your City Do? | Popular Science

Which goes back to what I said -- cities 1-8 are major East Coast -- even Atlanta ranks higher -- (mid-west is a surprise, but not Chicago) or California cities.

Sure, Seattle's not Dayton Ohio (even though it needs to catch up with Columbus), but it's also not a North American Tokyo compared to other cities either, even though much of the local perception and media image is that Seattle is technologically and socially more advanced than other parts of the U.S.

I think, back to the original point, someone commented on how people here seem to see themselves as superior when compared to the rest of the country -- relative isolation, I think, allows this perception to persist.

By the way, as the second most literate city, do people here feel intimidated if a transplanted Minnesotan joins their local book club?

Seattle is ranked the 4th fastest growing large metro area, however, and the 5th highest concentration of biotech -- so, it's not a provincial backwater by any means.
In Pictures: America's Fastest-Growing Large And Small Metros - Forbes.com

[south-to-west]

Originally Posted by Historyafficianado

So, your experience with this is coming to visit relatives occasionally, rather than living here yourself. As you're spending time with relatives, do you think you'd be as affected as someone moving here who doesn't know anyone?

Actually I used to spend my summers out in Washington State and I had been able to make a decent number of friends out there. Of course I wouldn't be as affected as a permanent resident, but I guess I'm just trying to say that the whole "Seattle Freeze" thing can be blown out of proportion at times.

Originally Posted by Historyafficianado

I also lived overseas for about 6 years and travel to other countries regularly (about 3 times a year, different places). I've also never found the need to analyze a social culture to the degree that I have here. Mostly, I'm doing it for the benefit of the people who are saying that they have a hard time adjusting.

I understand.

Originally Posted by Historyafficianado

That's a pretty strong statement. From my own observation and the posts of many other people, as well as from talking to other transplants to the region, the lack of eye contact and handshaking in this area is notable. I wouldn't call the Northwesterners pariahs, but if that's your opinion, then you would likely mistrust a lot of the people you met up here.

I just find it hard to believe that Seattle is a city of social pariahs. Seriously, people that can't have the common courtesy to say "hi" when you're within close proximity have a major issue.

[Ira500]

We may be a very literate city but dang! that downtown library is ugly!

[HistoryAficionado]

Since it's been brought up, here is some data that I did a quick search and found. Interesting

Establishing Seattle's Scandinavian history:
Seattle History: The Seattle Times

Note that, today, Seattle's population is only something like 10% Scandinavian. However, cultural marks by predominate earlier settlers typically linger.

Social profiles of the 4 Scandinavian Countries. I'm putting traits that I find in Seattle aside from the links:
Finland:
"As foreigners often note, Finns are curiously silent in the metro, the bus or the tram. In lifts, they suffer from the same mute embarrassment as everyone else in the world. However, a visitor clutching a map will have no trouble in getting advice on a street corner or in any other public place, since the hospitality of Finns easily overrides their customary reserve."
"Finns rarely enter into conversation with strangers, unless a particularly strong impulse prompts it."
"Finns are chronically insecure about whether the wider world is aware of the achievements of this northern nation. Finns love reading things written about them abroad, and visitors should not feel uncomfortable being asked repeatedly what they think of Finland. However, although Finns are ready enough to criticize their own country, they do not necessarily wish to hear visitors doing so."
A Guide to Finnish Customs and Manners — Virtual Finland

Denmark:
"Danes believe there is one proper way in which to act in any given circumstance. If person is not followers [SIC] the rules, be they written or simply understood, person will by and large speak up and admonish them to obey the accepted protocol."
"Talk in centrist tones and do not do anything to call attention to yourself."

Expatriate Life in Denmark | Latest News, Articles, Reviews and Q&A @ ExpatriateLife.com

"Danes are wary of the U.S. custom of starting conversations with strangers. Therefore, don't be surprised or insulted if a Dane with whom you attempt to make small talk fails to be responsive."
Denmark: Public Behaviour - ExecutivePlanet.com

Norway:see Jante Law: Jante Law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Expatriate Life in Norway | Latest News, Articles, Reviews and Q&A @ ExpatriateLife.com
"Do not ask personal questions or be offended if Norwegians do not inquire about your family, work, and so forth."
"Avoid superficiality in conversation"
"Norwegians accept silence with ease, so it would be a mistake hurriedly to fill in pauses in the conversation."
Norway: Conversation - ExecutivePlanet.com
Sweden:
"Do not praise another city or area in Sweden over the one you are presently visiting. Swedes are very proud of their own town or region."
"Do not criticize Swedish lifestyle, sexual habits, suicide rate, prices, etc."
"Do not compliment lightly. Insincere comments are considered rude."
Sweden -Cultural Etiquette - e Diplomat
"Swedes are not much good at establishing contact, as they seldom feel inclined to make conversation simply because the opportunity arises. Many prefer to listen. In Sweden, this is taken as a sign of modesty or lack of pretension – qualities that are much admired here."
The Swedish myths: True, false or somewhere in between? - SWEDEN.SE
There's more, but this is what stands out.

By the way, I'm not calling this out as bad or negative (note that all of these countries and cultures have many great historic achievements, are known for fairness, egalitarianism, low corruption, good healthcare, good government, etc), just different from much of the U.S. culture. It's expected when people travel abroad, not so much when it's encountered within our own borders.

[seattlerain]

Very interesting reading!

The Jante Law was discussed several pages back in this thread, and I believe that there was a native of Sweden that remarked on it from his perspective as well.

I'm old enough to remember Ballard when it still had a large Scandinavian population. Of course by then most of them were elderly, but I do remember walking along Market Street in Ballard, or riding the bus in Ballard and hearing more than just a few people speaking in a Scandinavian language. Also, it has been that long since you could read through the obituaries and find at least two or three people nearly every day that had immigrated to the Seattle area from Scandinavia.

I lived and worked in Munich for three years in the 1980's, and many of the Scandinavian characteristics also apply to the Germans. For example, it's not uncommon for people to be neighbors for many decades and never know more about them than their surname. The German language itself is also much more formal than English.

The Jante Law was discussed several pages back in this thread, and I believe that there was a native of Sweden that remarked on it from his perspective as well.

[HistoryAficionado]

Originally Posted by seattlerain

Very interesting reading!

I'm old enough to remember Ballard when it still had a large Scandinavian population. Of course by then most of them were elderly, but I do remember walking along Market Street in Ballard, or riding the bus in Ballard and hearing more than just a few people speaking in a Scandinavian language. Also, it has been that long since you could read through the obituaries and find at least two or three people nearly every day that had immigrated to the Seattle area from Scandinavia.

I lived and worked in Munich for three years in the 1980's, and many of the Scandinavian characteristics also apply to the Germans. For example, it's not uncommon for people to be neighbors for many decades and never know more about them than their surname. The German language itself is also much more formal than English.

Actually, I think, currently, German heritage outnumbers Scandinavian in WA state by a significant degree. However, despite the current cultural make-up, it looks like Scandinavian settlers (much as the Scots-Irish in the South) had a cultural influence here that was probably adapted by other groups earlier on and became a norm.

Here's a similar profile of Germany. I've noticed that the modern, post-reunification, Germans are more laid back and approachable than their cultural stereotypes portray.
Expatriate Life in Germany | Latest News, Articles, Reviews and Q&A @ ExpatriateLife.com


Also, see other thread I've started about the relative "native to transplant" ratios in WA. I keep hearing that "transplants outnumber the natives" and, while it's pretty close, the natives still seem to be a majority statewide, at least as of the 2006 census.