Official "Seattle Freeze" Discussion Thread (Bellevue, Highland: suburbs, office)

[GB1]

Originally Posted by theRain

One addition to my post, above: What is so wrong with enjoying people on a superficial level? I mean, I do like other folks, I enjoy interacting at that level! At a public event, or out shopping, people are great. Why should we need to go beyond that with more than the occasional, special person?

I think this attitude, and the Freeze in general, correlate with the PNW's general longing for "community." You can't turn around up there without people talking about "fostering community" or "building community spirit" or "including the whole community."

It's not so in other places, and I think that's because community just happens when people are more open to one another. And by that, I don't mean "up in your business all the time" (which is the usual rejoinder to the Freeze -- as if the two polarities are all there are!), but just more open to individuals in ways that extend beyond the superficial.

[VeronikaW]

Originally Posted by cobolt

And thus, you have just illustrated the very point of which we speak. If this is "normal" to you, then you can have your normal. There are better ways to live.

Amen! I'd give you rep, but it won't let me, since I've rep'd you before!

[Topaz]

Originally Posted by GB1

I think this attitude, and the Freeze in general, correlate with the PNW's general longing for "community." You can't turn around up there without people talking about "fostering community" or "building community spirit" or "including the whole community."

Seattle is the one place I've lived where people like to talk about community a whole lot better than actually participating in one. Interacting with their neighbors in anything but a superficial way seems to stress out many Seattleites. (Note that I didn't way this is true of everyone there, just more so than in any other city I've been).

When I first moved to Seattle, I joined a church and signed up for the "Care Committee." The idea was that if someone was sick or had just had a baby or something and needed a meal delivered or errands run or whatever, I would do it. In an entire year, I didn't get one request. I asked the Coordinator what was going on and she reassured me that the program was publicized but that no one had asked for help. She said, "People in Seattle don't want to be seen as needy."

The threshold seems to be very low in Seattle for what is seen as needy or intrusive or interpersonally obnoxious. So it really is a perfect place for people who enjoy a certain distance and interpersonal reserve. For everyone else, it isn't the best fit.

[goldengrain]

Originally Posted by theRain

One addition to my post, above: What is so wrong with enjoying people on a superficial level? I mean, I do like other folks, I enjoy interacting at that level! At a public event, or out shopping, people are great. Why should we need to go beyond that with more than the occasional, special person?

Gee, do I agree with you. I like people, but usually at a distance. You can't be all things to all people, nor would you want to. If a person is satisfied with their life one or two close friendships are a treasure. The others are often a distraction from what's important to you, static in your life.

It is a big, and increasingly interdependent world. We have to learn to get along, but that is at arms length, of necessity.

This does not mean you lack social graces or are rude.

The thing is, I have always been busy living my life and rarely knew my neighbors other than a 'good morning' or 'hello'.

There is a place in life for different types of people and today there is a big movement in schools and psychology that considers us as 'social' beings, sometimes more social than many of us would want to be.

What is that saying, 'Master of all trades, expert in none'? There are people who know and enjoy many people but do not have one, true, friend.
Friendships often take much shared experience over time. They cannot be rushed nor forced.

Also, the more you have been exposed to in life, the more you tend to learn, so you become opinionated and have likes and dislikes that may be different than those of your neighbor. The more 'specialized' our thinking becomes, the less we blend in with the thought of people surrounding us, no?

It is much easier to let your hair down and 'share' with people if you all have the same beliefs, if you are in an homoginized society. Perhaps a person develops a natural reserve if they share different values and ideals and aspirations than those around them. This is an attempt to avoid potential conflict. And these ideas are usually not something you will discuss with strangers, so you keep them at a respectful distance.

[theRain]

Originally Posted by Topaz

So it really is a perfect place for people who enjoy a certain distance and interpersonal reserve. For everyone else, it isn't the best fit.

If it's not for you, you don't have to bash it! if everyone could be intsant "bestest friends" that would be no more real, or normal, than a "Stepford Wives" world. Live and let live, and if you don't like it, please leave!
I, for one, am happy to know where "home" is, and will celebrate the Seattle Freeze!

[cobolt]

Originally Posted by goldengrain

It is a big, and increasingly interdependent world. We have to learn to get along, but that is at arms length, of necessity.

So sad that we must wait for the Katrinas and avalanches, the 9/11's and such to "get along" out of necessity. If the world is interdependent as you say, then wouldn't it be just the opposite?

Originally Posted by goldengrain

What is that saying, 'Master of all trades, expert in none'? There are people who know and enjoy many people but do not have one, true, friend.
Friendships often take much shared experience over time. They cannot be rushed nor forced. .

True, friendships cannot be rushed, but they must be allowed an opening. You dont' even get that vibe here at all. "Hello, now please go away." How does friendship grow from that?

Originally Posted by goldengrain

Also, the more you have been exposed to in life, the more you tend to learn, so you become opinionated and have likes and dislikes that may be different than those of your neighbor. The more 'specialized' our thinking becomes, the less we blend in with the thought of people surrounding us, no? .

Not if you're comfortable with your own self and beliefs. Then those who differ from yours will not affect friendships and in fact, you may learn something from them and become a richer person.

Originally Posted by goldengrain

It is much easier to let your hair down and 'share' with people if you all have the same beliefs, if you are in an homoginized society. Perhaps a person develops a natural reserve if they share different values and ideals and aspirations than those around them. This is an attempt to avoid potential conflict. And these ideas are usually not something you will discuss with strangers, so you keep them at a respectful distance.

Seattlites and PacNWers claim to be the epicenter of "diversity." How is that possible with this sort of mentality as the overarching theme and modus operendi?

[goldengrain]

Originally Posted by cobolt

So sad that we must wait for the Katrinas and avalanches, the 9/11's and such to "get along" out of necessity. If the world is interdependent as you say, then wouldn't it be just the opposite?

No, because if you notice, this is not long-lasting, neither is it natural. The closer and more crammed in you are with other people, the more you are likely to get on each other's nerves. Many families cannot get along, evern for holiday meals once a year.

True, friendships cannot be rushed, but they must be allowed an opening. You dont' even get that vibe here at all. "Hello, now please go away." How does friendship grow from that??

We cannot be all things to all people. It would work if we lived in a 'vanilla' world, but that would be boring. I think it is healthy that we do not all see the world and our lives the same.

Not if you're comfortable with your own self and beliefs. Then those who differ from yours will not affect friendships and in fact, you may learn something from them and become a richer person.

Yeah. But there are only so many 'born again' people who I must meet and I can talk to them for just so long before my eyes glaze over and I stop being polite. Most of us enjoy learning things, but people who are just learning things we have left off with in grammer school do not have a lot of draw, at least for me. The only way I can 'get along' with certain people is just to avoid certain topics which are obviously the center of their lives. That can never become a friendship, at least by my definition of friendship.

Seattlites and PacNWers claim to be the epicenter of "diversity." How is that possible with this sort of mentality as the overarching theme and modus operendi?

To my way of thinking, 'diversity' in the ideal political sense is that I respect, or not, people for their inner qualities, the way they have used their minds, and for their character. I do not form conclusions on the basis of whether they are white or black, gay or straight. It does not mean that I have to respect lobbyists who would have my employees in Congress favor business interests over mine. It does not mean that I have to respect those who would still vote for W today, were he allowed to run. It does not mean that I have to respect those who are willing to pollute the environment with fossil fuels and nuclear waste for the sake of profits today with no consideration for future generations of humanity and other life on this planet. Love of diversity does not make an individual dumb.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by theRain

If I watch a movie, it is because I am interested in the movie, not because I want to discuss it with someone else, duh. If I need to eat a meal, I do it because I want to eat, not because I want to make it an hours long event, talking more than eating. Eat, then go do other things.

There are times when I feel like that, but there are other times that I really want to discuss a movie, and enjoy some good conversation over dinner. I agree with those who say:

And thus, you have just illustrated the very point of which we speak. If this is "normal" to you, then you can have your normal. There are better ways to live.

[Meerteekah]

There you go: Diversity= I only befriend someone just like me cause those 'others" are idiots who don't know better, like "I" do.

Hah.

It sounds rather creepy. I'm tolerant, but if you're not like me, stay away,we don't want you. Both the intolerant and the tolerant sound suspiciously alike here in terms of divisive and belittling language.

Mirtika

[VeronikaW]

Here's my story for the day.

I was leaving the Highlands, on the one-way street out of here, and for like the 10th time in as many days, a person turned down the street the wrong way. I'm gesturing at her like crazy from my car that it's a one-way street, and she slows down, gives me the stink eye, and then promptly flips me off. Then she realized it was a one way street and turned around.

I'm so tired of idiots turning the wrong way on that street. I don't care if they kill themselves, but I have a baby in my car!

V. =)