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We just got back from a week in Seattle, and I didn't experience this so-called freeze anywhere. I was thinking it would be something I would look forward to, but maybe that was only because DC-area people are so miserable. Seattleites were some of the friendliest, most helpful people my wife and I have encountered in a long time. Sure, maybe the average Seattleite won't want to strike up a long conversation with you, but that's just common courtesy. If I want to chat, I'll let someone know, and if a Seattleite affords me the same courtesy, I just consider that politeness. It's a lot better than having someone scream at you, brusquely brush you off, or completely ignore you, which is pretty much what you get in high-strung, rude, self-absorbed DC.
Complete strangers passed us on the Seattle streets, smiled, and said good morning. That never happens in DC. Never.
Okay, so I've heard the Seattle Freeze kindly described as introversion, reserve or shyness on the part of the native Seattlites involved. Does anyone else think this is being too generous? I've found that, often, when a native Seattlite isn't being warm and friendly, it's not out of introversion, reserve or shyness. It's out of resentment, blandness or elitism. In other words, if you suspect that a Seattlite doesn't like you, or is a sulking prig, you're probably right!
It seems to me that "introverted" and "reserved" have become the Seattle euphemisms for "doesn't like most people". Sort of how a guy who beats his wife will claim in court to have Borderline Personality Disorder. Introversion can be an admirable trait, but I don't think that's always what's behind the Seattle Freeze.
Am I bitter? Probably. I've wasted too much time and effort trying to befriend these so-called introverted native Seattlites, only to eventually realize that introversion generally wasn't the problem. People who make themselves hard to know aren't necessarily worth knowing.
I am Seattle born and raised, and we definitly have a deep freeze here. People are weird socially and they always seem uneasy or uncomfortable. I never feel like I fit in, and I'm perfectly normal,maybe just a bit shy, but outgrowing that. People have their own little cliques just like in High School, but they never outgrow them. There's always the cool kids, and the ones that are just not quite cool enough, even in the workplace from 25-40 year olds. Nobody wants to have more than a surface connection. I definitly have my close friends, but even then everybody seems competitive, and always wanting to leave people out or seem too cool or pick on others. I have really noticed that people like to single others out that they think are uncool or easy targets to pick on, even when they are nice people. Seriously, I am not a nerd, overweight, annoying, ugly or anything to my knowledge...so I don't know what's up. Everytime I go back to Hawaii to visit my family, I fit right in. I personally never feel targeted here, yet I never fit in quite right. There are nice people, but they just don't want to get too close to you. Maybe it's just me, but I'm getting out hopefully!!!
We just got back from a week in Seattle, and I didn't experience this so-called freeze anywhere. I was thinking it would be something I would look forward to, but maybe that was only because DC-area people are so miserable. Seattleites were some of the friendliest, most helpful people my wife and I have encountered in a long time. Sure, maybe the average Seattleite won't want to strike up a long conversation with you, but that's just common courtesy. If I want to chat, I'll let someone know, and if a Seattleite affords me the same courtesy, I just consider that politeness. It's a lot better than having someone scream at you, brusquely brush you off, or completely ignore you, which is pretty much what you get in high-strung, rude, self-absorbed DC.
Complete strangers passed us on the Seattle streets, smiled, and said good morning. That never happens in DC. Never.
My experience with Seattle was WAY more like yours ... an entirely positive experience. All of my friends are in Seattle, and since I've moved, I quite miss the Seattle environment.
Maybe Seattle attracts a certain type of person, maybe that is true. In my experience, though, Seattlites are warm and helpful and intellectual and funny and just a great joy to be around! And Seattle, of course, is dang near magical with the confluence of beauty in people and nature everywhere you turn.
I read this thread sometimes and wonder if we are talking about the same city.
My experience with Seattle was WAY more like yours ... an entirely positive experience. All of my friends are in Seattle, and since I've moved, I quite miss the Seattle environment.
Maybe Seattle attracts a certain type of person, maybe that is true. In my experience, though, Seattlites are warm and helpful and intellectual and funny and just a great joy to be around! And Seattle, of course, is dang near magical with the confluence of beauty in people and nature everywhere you turn.
I read this thread sometimes and wonder if we are talking about the same city.
Maybe this comes down to different personality types and the way they react to their environment. If you're a gregarious extrovert, and you need to be wired in and connected, socially engaged and talking to people all the time and on the move, maybe you'd find Seattle a little off-putting. I don't know. But if your home is your castle and you're content to live around other people who are laid back and courteous, who are happy to engage in a lively, intellectual chat with you but just as happy to mind their own business, and if you don't feel the need to party the night away, then you'll probably feel right at home.
If anyone did one of those Myers-Briggs tests on Seattleites, I'll bet a lot of them would come out as an "I" on the introvert/extrovert scale. This is a real phenomenon that causes a lot of misunderstanding between people, I think. I've seen relationships break down because the "I" and the "E" can't understand how the other person relates to the world. Extroverts need to engage with other people, while introverts take their energy from solitude. I know people who are literally terrified of the thought of sitting in a room, quietly, doing nothing, while I could meditate for hours and find it a peaceful, relaxing way to recharge my batteries.
As a pretty strong introvert myself, I've dealt with this perception in my own life -- I know of people in my past who thought I was cold and standoffish, but I just don't have a lot to say. I find idle chit-chat emotionally draining and intellectually stagnant, and I'd rather not waste people's time babbling on about nothing. But give me something to intellectually chew on, and I'll be the warmest, friendliest conversation partner you could hope to have!
Maybe that's how Seattleites view the world. Maybe I'm already a Seattleite at heart.
Does the Seattle Freeze extend to high school? I figure that I will fit right in (introverted type that I am). However my son is a different story. He is Mr. Personality. There are no strangers in his world, only friends he hasn't met yet. Will that be an issue for HS and later college?
Maybe this comes down to different personality types and the way they react to their environment. If you're a gregarious extrovert, and you need to be wired in and connected, socially engaged and talking to people all the time and on the move, maybe you'd find Seattle a little off-putting. I don't know. But if your home is your castle and you're content to live around other people who are laid back and courteous, who are happy to engage in a lively, intellectual chat with you but just as happy to mind their own business, and if you don't feel the need to party the night away, then you'll probably feel right at home.
If anyone did one of those Myers-Briggs tests on Seattleites, I'll bet a lot of them would come out as an "I" on the introvert/extrovert scale. This is a real phenomenon that causes a lot of misunderstanding between people, I think. I've seen relationships break down because the "I" and the "E" can't understand how the other person relates to the world. Extroverts need to engage with other people, while introverts take their energy from solitude. I know people who are literally terrified of the thought of sitting in a room, quietly, doing nothing, while I could meditate for hours and find it a peaceful, relaxing way to recharge my batteries.
As a pretty strong introvert myself, I've dealt with this perception in my own life -- I know of people in my past who thought I was cold and standoffish, but I just don't have a lot to say. I find idle chit-chat emotionally draining and intellectually stagnant, and I'd rather not waste people's time babbling on about nothing. But give me something to intellectually chew on, and I'll be the warmest, friendliest conversation partner you could hope to have!
Maybe that's how Seattleites view the world. Maybe I'm already a Seattleite at heart.
P.S. Enjoy the rec point.
If what you say holds true then I, too, will love Seattle. I need down-time to recharge. I enjoy stimulating ideas. The Socrates Cafe groups started in Washington State. Now they are scattered all around the country. When we move to Seattle we will be joining at least one. You may be interested, as well: Find a Cafe (http://www.conversationcafe.org/Find%20a%20Cafe.htm - broken link)
They started out discussing philosophic issues but some get into less abstract things, as well, such as current events and issues of freedom of the individual, medical ethics, etc.
I think the beauty of a city is that you are more likely to find people of similar attitudes and interests living closer to you and there are more events at which to meet them than in the burbs or country.
I have learned to do some chit-chat, though. For some people it is an ice-breaker, a sort of common ground of humanity from which to launch more interesting conversations. What really turns me off is incessant chit-chat about family or recipes. Some people would dissolve, it seems, if all their family members and Cuisinart disappeared.
See if there is a cafe in your area. You might enjoy it.
If what you say holds true then I, too, will love Seattle. I need down-time to recharge. I enjoy stimulating ideas. The Socrates Cafe groups started in Washington State. Now they are scattered all around the country. When we move to Seattle we will be joining at least one. You may be interested, as well: Find a Cafe (http://www.conversationcafe.org/Find%20a%20Cafe.htm - broken link)
They started out discussing philosophic issues but some get into less abstract things, as well, such as current events and issues of freedom of the individual, medical ethics, etc.
I think the beauty of a city is that you are more likely to find people of similar attitudes and interests living closer to you and there are more events at which to meet them than in the burbs or country.
I have learned to do some chit-chat, though. For some people it is an ice-breaker, a sort of common ground of humanity from which to launch more interesting conversations. What really turns me off is incessant chit-chat about family or recipes. Some people would dissolve, it seems, if all their family members and Cuisinart disappeared.
See if there is a cafe in your area. You might enjoy it.
Huh??? Of course I would dissolve if all my family members disappeared. They are the ones I hold dear in my heart.
He is Mr. Personality. There are no strangers in his world, only friends he hasn't met yet. Will that be an issue for HS and later college?
I think it's likely that your son is going to get frustrated if his social efforts aren't reciprocated. He might appreciate reassurance from you that it's not his fault, that this is how Seattle is. We've seen so many people online who appreciated the validation that the Seattle Freeze article provided in 2005. Maybe clip and save the article for him.
Huh??? Of course I would dissolve if all my family members disappeared. They are the ones I hold dear in my heart.
Yes, but a person should not expect that they would also be near and dear to others.
Conversation should extend beyond family, or it gets pretty boring pretty fast.
Our families are stuck wit us, but our friends choose us - or not.
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Seattle freeze? You mean Ice Age....
