Seattle downtown really dodgy (Bellevue, Kirkland: tax, to live in, shoppers)

[Freebird2007]

Originally Posted by Beenhere4ever

I define "accosted" as being screamed at and hounded. But honestly, that was walking up Yesler Way toward Pioneer Square. I've walked the same direction on 5 or 10 other streets with no problems at all. So it was a really peculiar experience. My hunch is that you don't want to make and hold eye contact. But I just think the chances of something happening to you like it did to me are rather small. I've spent countless days wandering downtown, and only the last time did anything untoward happen to me. In my own hometown, if I'm walking from or to my car in a parking lot, I can pick out a panhandlers swooping on me about a hundred feet away. Nothing like that in Washington.

Oh I have been accosted plenty of times...both walking to my bus and driving downtown. Not always by the homeless but by sketchy people (they just seem to all congregate downtown) I have been yelled at for nothing, Stared down, pushed, begged, etc etc. Had one sketch dude get into a fight with 2 others right in front of me after he attacked a guard at a building. Spilled right over into where the people were waiting for their buses.

I have spoken to a lot of people who have come to visit Seattle and a lot of them have the same question "why is downtown Seattle so sketchy? Why are there so many homeless?"

to deny this is to be in denial.

[Beenhere4ever]

To me, the mentally ill should be provided an environment where they can subsist without sleeping on sidewalks or under bridges. I don't so much say that out of mercy as that society doesn't really appreciate the present solution. They are treated by many in this society as "unwanted people who should disappear". But a living organism simply isn't going to meekly do that. Every person should step into those ragged secondhand shoes and ask oneself "Would I just vanish if I knew that was what the more fortunate people wished?" I think nature endows us all with more survival instinct than that.

[415_s2k]

Originally Posted by Beenhere4ever

To me, the mentally ill should be provided an environment where they can subsist without sleeping on sidewalks or under bridges. I don't so much say that out of mercy as that society doesn't really appreciate the present solution. They are treated by many in this society as "unwanted people who should disappear". But a living organism simply isn't going to meekly do that. Every person should step into those ragged secondhand shoes and ask oneself "Would I just vanish if I knew that was what the more fortunate people wished?" I think nature endows us all with more survival instinct than that.

^^ I agree. Take them off the streets and keep them from defecating in alleys, going on totally nuts in public. Works for every other industrialized nation...

[azoria]

Oh forchrissake Beenhere4ever, get a grip.

Plenty of those people aren't mentally ill, they're just plain outright nasty no-goodniks. Somewhere in your bleeding liberal heart can you see that they are using you. And then when your refuse their rude demands for money/cigarettes/attention they become mean and abusive don't they? That's why they don't have jobs. Or friends. Or apartments.

Seattle is mentally ill for mollycoddling abusive degenerate street people who have no ambition but to blatantly harass the general public, steal anything they can get their hands on, and pizz in the doorways.

I've owned better behaved farm animals.

[Inkpoe]

Originally Posted by azoria

Oh forchrissake Beenhere4ever, get a grip.

Plenty of those people aren't mentally ill, they're just plain outright nasty no-goodniks. Somewhere in your bleeding liberal heart can you see that they are using you. And then when your refuse their rude demands for money/cigarettes/attention they become mean and abusive don't they? That's why they don't have jobs. Or friends. Or apartments.

Seattle is mentally ill for mollycoddling abusive degenerate street people who have no ambition but to blatantly harass the general public, steal anything they can get their hands on, and pizz in the doorways.

I've owned better behaved farm animals.

Yea, seriously. That kind of thinking is exactly why we have this problem right now.

Sitting there thinking: "Would I just vanish if I knew that was what the more fortunate people wished?" is way too indulgent and doesn't accomplish anything other than congratulate yourself for appearing to be very sympathetic to a difficult situation. It doesn't even induces one to be more empathetic to such circumstances. Patting yourself on your back accomplishes nothing.

[CarawayDJ]

Originally Posted by azoria

Oh forchrissake Beenhere4ever, get a grip.

Plenty of those people aren't mentally ill, they're just plain outright nasty no-goodniks. Somewhere in your bleeding liberal heart can you see that they are using you. And then when your refuse their rude demands for money/cigarettes/attention they become mean and abusive don't they? That's why they don't have jobs. Or friends. Or apartments.

Seattle is mentally ill for mollycoddling abusive degenerate street people who have no ambition but to blatantly harass the general public, steal anything they can get their hands on, and pizz in the doorways.

I've owned better behaved farm animals.

Sometimes we ask is it this OR that, when in fact it is this AND that. Both of you are correct. Maybe you can argue how the percentages lay out, but the homeless encompass the mentally ill, addicted, people who fell on hard times and haven't recovered, AND good for nothing wastes of human embryos.

[pw72]

Originally Posted by CarawayDJ

Sometimes we ask is it this OR that, when in fact it is this AND that. Both of you are correct. Maybe you can argue how the percentages lay out, but the homeless encompass the mentally ill, addicted, people who fell on hard times and haven't recovered, AND good for nothing wastes of human embryos.

Totally agreed. The problem doesn't have one source. The above poster lays it out sensibly. We, as a society always try to put problems into neat little packages, but nothing could be further from the truth. The problems cross many dimensions, and we should take a pragmetic approach to solving this.

One pragmatic approach one should take in visiting downtown Seattle, (a great place to visit, btw), is to simply be aware of your surroundings, protect your loved ones and be prepared to walk away from any perceived trouble. Most who follow these simple principles will be fine.

[Beenhere4ever]

Originally Posted by Inkpoe

Yea, seriously. That kind of thinking is exactly why we have this problem right now.

Sitting there thinking: "Would I just vanish if I knew that was what the more fortunate people wished?" is way too indulgent and doesn't accomplish anything other than congratulate yourself for appearing to be very sympathetic to a difficult situation. It doesn't even induces one to be more empathetic to such circumstances. Patting yourself on your back accomplishes nothing.

Boy some people would poke their own eyes out to get some imaginary comfort. I make a point that I wasn't making a plea for mercy. I'm saying people thinking no action will result in pleasant consequences are simply naive, hoping to close their eyes and make it disappear. But with the existing conditions, nothing will change, and frankly the notion that it will shrink is optimistic, too. I don't think there's a solid case anywhere in the world or history where that happened. Yet, stubbornly people tell themselves "If we don't reinforce this, it will disappear on its own". No it won't. I think you have to live in a prosperous country to even entertain such an idea. There are whole continents where the level of poverty is far higher than here. And neglect has simply caused poverty to grow and grow. I know that Indira Gandhi's government at one time wanted to sterilize poor Indian women. She found out that that "scientific solution" is something no government can do.

So stop being suckers and thinking your indifference is making any difference. As long as our country continues to treat bankers as holy men who can do no wrong, more and more people will be on the street. And before they starve, they will do ANYTHING to survive. I guess you have to live in a distant suburb to imagine it could be any other way. I've never lived outside a core city. I've got nearly seven decades to base this on. You can call it "dodgy". I call it necessary consequences.

[UrbanAdventurer]

The panhandlers seem very at home in the Pacific Northwest don't they? If you think Seattle is bad, Vancouver BC is probably even worse. Portland also has a fairly well deserved wrap as a street urchin's paradise, but most of them are harmless if you politely dismiss them. They seem to get nastier and more aggressive farther up north though.

[CarawayDJ]

Originally Posted by Beenhere4ever

Boy some people would poke their own eyes out to get some imaginary comfort. I make a point that I wasn't making a plea for mercy. I'm saying people thinking no action will result in pleasant consequences are simply naive, hoping to close their eyes and make it disappear. But with the existing conditions, nothing will change, and frankly the notion that it will shrink is optimistic, too. I don't think there's a solid case anywhere in the world or history where that happened. Yet, stubbornly people tell themselves "If we don't reinforce this, it will disappear on its own". No it won't. I think you have to live in a prosperous country to even entertain such an idea. There are whole continents where the level of poverty is far higher than here. And neglect has simply caused poverty to grow and grow. I know that Indira Gandhi's government at one time wanted to sterilize poor Indian women. She found out that that "scientific solution" is something no government can do.

So stop being suckers and thinking your indifference is making any difference. As long as our country continues to treat bankers as holy men who can do no wrong, more and more people will be on the street. And before they starve, they will do ANYTHING to survive. I guess you have to live in a distant suburb to imagine it could be any other way. I've never lived outside a core city. I've got nearly seven decades to base this on. You can call it "dodgy". I call it necessary consequences.

You must be one of those "occupiers". You bring bankers up a lot. I should check the weather thread to see if you blame them for the Seattle weather too. Not to defend bankers, but seriously, how many of the homeless do you believe are that way because of bankers? Mentally ill because of a banker? Addicted to drugs because of a banker? Fell on hard times because of a banker? (possible, but still a stretch) Just a waste of a human embryo (some) because of a banker? Bias and intellect cannot exist in the same place at the same time. Just saying...

You are correct though in alluding to this being a world problem. Even some of the most socially generous countries in Europe have homeless. I've seen bankers in Frankfurt dropping them off at night after foreclosing on their apartment rent

But seriously, you bring up some good points. I just can't fathom how you tie this to bankers though. Your venturing deep into the realm of conspiracy economics. If you bring up the Illuminati I'm out of here.