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I'm particular about schools, not only in terms of the education itself but also the student population. We really want a demographic that's very academically-focused and values education (i.e. a smart student won't be bullied for being a 'nerd'), and provides opportunities beyond the standard curriculum. At the risk of being flamed, I would not put my child in a school where, for instance, 30% of the students are in the free-lunch program - not because I'm a snob, but because I know this typically corresponds to less educational focus and more problems with bullying etc. I'd want a school where kids are from educated families, are driven, and less likely to be getting into trouble (and I know all kids get in trouble, but such schools exist to a degree).
Don't move here!
There are poor people everywhere! I know, because I'm poor and I live right on the Bellevue/Redmond border. There are really nice houses right down the street from me!
We poor people will be shopping in the same groceries stores as you, going to movies at the same cinemas as you, using the same parks as you, etc. I may even drive through your neighborhood to get to my job in Kirkland (the same city where your husband will be working!). You may even see trash like me buying fruit (!) at the Redmond Saturday Market in the summertime! Or browsing Bellevue Square during the holiday season! Be careful, our poverty might be contagious! Hide your children! Make sure you home school!
Seriously, though, just because a school caters to a wealthy demographic doesn't mean it's a good school or your kids won't get bullied. Bullies come from all socio-economic backgrounds, and not all wealthy parents are good parents (some spoil their children rotten for example). Wealthier families can afford to pay for tutoring and other supplemental education, that why schools in wealthier areas tend to have better test scores, not because those schools are inherently better. The best schools will have good test scores despite a diverse student population, because these schools educate all different kinds of students well and expect them all to achieve.
But I was very serious when I said not to move here. This area doesn't need any more elitism. The amount of money you make doesn't make you or your family any better than anyone else, and vice versa.
Thanks; Bothell is a bit further than we'd like to go...we'd want to stay within a short distance to the Bellevue and Redmond downtowns for shopping and entertainment.
I'm particular about schools, not only in terms of the education itself but also the student population. We really want a demographic that's very academically-focused and values education (i.e. a smart student won't be bullied for being a 'nerd'), and provides opportunities beyond the standard curriculum. At the risk of being flamed, I would not put my child in a school where, for instance, 30% of the students are in the free-lunch program - not because I'm a snob, but because I know this typically corresponds to less educational focus and more problems with bullying etc. I'd want a school where kids are from educated families, are driven, and less likely to be getting into trouble (and I know all kids get in trouble, but such schools exist to a degree).
Bothell is like 20 minutes from Bellevue and Redmond. 30 minutes on a bad day. You're coming from the Bay, these should be a cakewalk for you.
Lot of opinions on this thread already. That, plus one more then:
I live in Kirkland (Norkirk), so I’m a self-selecting a bit for bias. But I did choose to live here specifically, after a decade elsewhere, vs other parts of Seattle metro (other finalists were Mercer Island (first choice), Bellevue (third), Redmond (fourth).
If your husband works in Kirkland, living on eastside “might” be a no-brainer. My place of business is mere miles from my home, an incredible luxury and a bit lucky since those in IT/tech tend to move jobs from time to time. If you want or need to avoid the evil Traffic Monster that is Seattle metro, you’re on the right track looking eastside.
I’m no parent but must say I’m surprised Kirkland’s Peter Kirk and the Jr. High…mere blocks from one another….didn't hit your radar. Depending on your child’s age and some of the special needs listed, I suppose. Not my scene.
Hmm: I have a three bedroom that Zillow claims (take with grain of salt) is in your price range, in a part of town that appears to be family-friendly. Thus, surprised you’ve been priced out already, though certainly the nicer places in Bellevue in-particular could make short-work of that budget. Of course too there are not just “nice” but “gorgeous” three and four bedroom, 2,500+ sq ft places down the street that start at $1.3M, so depends on what you are after.
Real estate is climbing fast here, YoY. Thus, another good question might be whether to make a strike now and stay for the long-term with the property as an investment. If, that is, you choose to make the assumption real estate is a solid “investment” these days: complicated story with (very) many opinions beyond scope of this thread.
Everything else you've described, in terms of price range and amenities, fits NorKirk, Houghton, Crestwoods, Highlands, Moss Bay (maybe) parts of Kirkland. Market, nuh uh. Carillon Point, ditto.
There are (or were, at least) tons of interesting townhomes in some or most of the areas mentioned. I looked closely at several before deciding to go the house-route a couple years ago (seemed the better long-term investment).
What about Enatai in Bellevue? North of I-90, south of downtown Bellevue, with a well regarded and high performing elementary school? There's not a whole lot of newer construction there, but there are some updated and very cool mid century modern homes.
There are poor people everywhere! I know, because I'm poor and I live right on the Bellevue/Redmond border. There are really nice houses right down the street from me!
We poor people will be shopping in the same groceries stores as you, going to movies at the same cinemas as you, using the same parks as you, etc. I may even drive through your neighborhood to get to my job in Kirkland (the same city where your husband will be working!). You may even see trash like me buying fruit (!) at the Redmond Saturday Market in the summertime! Or browsing Bellevue Square during the holiday season! Be careful, our poverty might be contagious! Hide your children! Make sure you home school!
Seriously, though, just because a school caters to a wealthy demographic doesn't mean it's a good school or your kids won't get bullied. Bullies come from all socio-economic backgrounds, and not all wealthy parents are good parents (some spoil their children rotten for example). Wealthier families can afford to pay for tutoring and other supplemental education, that why schools in wealthier areas tend to have better test scores, not because those schools are inherently better. The best schools will have good test scores despite a diverse student population, because these schools educate all different kinds of students well and expect them all to achieve.
But I was very serious when I said not to move here. This area doesn't need any more elitism. The amount of money you make doesn't make you or your family any better than anyone else, and vice versa.
Geez, okay, that's exactly why I said I was expecting to get flamed for that one
FWIW, my family is in NO way wealthy; we're very very middle class at best; me and DH are both from immigrant families and have worked our way from scratch, my family came with absolutely nothing. So believe me, I know what it's like to be poor, and in fact one reason I wouldn't necessarily want a private school, aside from cost, is precisely the elitism and snobbery that may come with it. I don't care about competing with the Joneses' and all that. However, as I explained previously, it's hard to deny that how good the school is tends to be directly correlated to the socio-economic class of the students. Again, it's not the class I care about - it's the focus on education, which does tend to be much less prevalent among certain demographics, as politically incorrect as it is to admit it.
A bit off-topic, but this is something I actually haven't even thought about when we lived in Canada - Vancouver is a wealthy city, yes, but the suburb where we lived wasn't all about show-off and mansions, yet there was basically no such thing as a bad school. It had a prevalent Asian population, and while we're not Asian, this is something I really like - the mentality that Asian families have towards education, their values, etc. Their kids stay busy all the time, they stay out of trouble, they work hard, and I would really like a similar type of peer environment for my kids. Now once we moved to California, it was a bit of culture shock to see what the 'worse' schools in a fairly solid middle class town were like - they still have 6-7 ratings, but you had groups of thug wannabees in gangsta wear hanging around in the high schools, the yard during recess in elementary would give Lord of the Flies a run for their money. I knew a family whose daughter went into a 5-rated school and had an absolutely horrific time, she was one of the only caucasian students in class, was bullied from day one, and when they went to talk to the principal, she completely brushed them off. The kids in that school clearly weren't there to learn, and it's obvious for many of these families that education isn't a priority for them.
So in short, yes, it could very well be that a school with a very socioeconomically diverse demographic could turn out to be fantastic and have driven, academically-focused students. However, the chance of this being the case is much much higher in a school with a high rating and certain demographic, and the well-being and education of my kids is not something I'm willing to play Russian Roulette with. There are large populations where kids aren't expected to even graduate high school much less college - and that's not to say that SOME kids from these populations don't go on to achieve great success - but statistics aren't on their side. It's basic fact that certain areas, schools, neighbourhoods are typically considered more desirable, safer, nicer than some other ones, hence they are more expensive and hence they attract a wealthier population. It's a simple fact of socioeconomics, and I don't think it's elitist in any way to admit that.
Last edited by EvilCookie; 10-30-2013 at 11:11 PM..
What about Enatai in Bellevue? North of I-90, south of downtown Bellevue, with a well regarded and high performing elementary school? There's not a whole lot of newer construction there, but there are some updated and very cool mid century modern homes.
Saw it and would love to find something in that area, however I didn't see anything listed in our budget when browsing for now. Not sure if there may be something later.
Keep in mind this is all in very preliminary stages for us right now, we have lots of time to look around, I just wanted to get a general sense of the neighbourhoods and where to think about looking.
So in short, yes, it could very well be that a school with a very socioeconomically diverse demographic could turn out to be fantastic and have driven, academically-focused students. However, the chance of this being the case is much much higher in a school with a high rating and certain demographic, and the well-being and education of my kids is not something I'm willing to play Russian Roulette with. There are large populations where kids aren't expected to even graduate high school much less college - and that's not to say that SOME kids from these populations do go on to achieve great success - but statistics aren't on their side. It's basic fact that certain areas, schools, neighbourhoods are typically considered more desirable, safer, nicer than some other ones, hence they are more expensive and hence they attract a wealthier population. It's a simple fact of socioeconomics, and I don't think it's elitist in any way to admit that.
Of course it isn't. You don't have to 'justify' anything to a person threatened by a desire for excellence in education for your child(ren). The word 'elitism' is code for, "(I) am uncomfortable by successful people who achieve, because their presence raises the bar: I may actually have to work harder and smarter for my piece of the same pie."
Yes, socioeconomic status correlates with intelligence and education (Herrnstein & Murray, "The Bell Curve" (1994)). Good schools, additional community resources (jobs, general prosperity) invariably follow along with those willing to work for what they want: a better lifestyle.
No 'White Guilt,' please: it's unbecoming. You wish to be around high-achievers, and grow tired of bums, gangstas, thugs, hoodlums (and the generally-retarded behavior associated therein) found in your current area. Not a positive environment to educate and raise a child, indeed.
By all means: do come here, then. Several hundred thousand people on the eastside (guesstimate) appear to agree with your point of view. Many of them are indeed Asian and Indian nationals, in-particular: cultures that IME value education and achievement.
We moved to Bellevue back in July. If you keep looking in Enatai and near downtown bellevue and are willing to live in a 3/2 around 1300 sq feet you really might find something in your price range. Also check Apple Valley, Woodridge, Wilburton, and Kelsey Creek. We are in Cherry Crest and love it. The elementary school is just what your looking for. The middle and high school in Cherry Crest don't meet your criteria. Good luck!
Geez, okay, that's exactly why I said I was expecting to get flamed for that one
FWIW, my family is in NO way wealthy; we're very very middle class at best; me and DH are both from immigrant families and have worked our way from scratch, my family came with absolutely nothing. So believe me, I know what it's like to be poor, and in fact one reason I wouldn't necessarily want a private school, aside from cost, is precisely the elitism and snobbery that may come with it. I don't care about competing with the Joneses' and all that. However, as I explained previously, it's hard to deny that how good the school is tends to be directly correlated to the socio-economic class of the students. Again, it's not the class I care about - it's the focus on education, which does tend to be much less prevalent among certain demographics, as politically incorrect as it is to admit it.
A bit off-topic, but this is something I actually haven't even thought about when we lived in Canada - Vancouver is a wealthy city, yes, but the suburb where we lived wasn't all about show-off and mansions, yet there was basically no such thing as a bad school. It had a prevalent Asian population, and while we're not Asian, this is something I really like - the mentality that Asian families have towards education, their values, etc. Their kids stay busy all the time, they stay out of trouble, they work hard, and I would really like a similar type of peer environment for my kids. Now once we moved to California, it was a bit of culture shock to see what the 'worse' schools in a fairly solid middle class town were like - they still have 6-7 ratings, but you had groups of thug wannabees in gangsta wear hanging around in the high schools, the yard during recess in elementary would give Lord of the Flies a run for their money. I knew a family whose daughter went into a 5-rated school and had an absolutely horrific time, she was one of the only caucasian students in class, was bullied from day one, and when they went to talk to the principal, she completely brushed them off. The kids in that school clearly weren't there to learn, and it's obvious for many of these families that education isn't a priority for them.
So in short, yes, it could very well be that a school with a very socioeconomically diverse demographic could turn out to be fantastic and have driven, academically-focused students. However, the chance of this being the case is much much higher in a school with a high rating and certain demographic, and the well-being and education of my kids is not something I'm willing to play Russian Roulette with. There are large populations where kids aren't expected to even graduate high school much less college - and that's not to say that SOME kids from these populations don't go on to achieve great success - but statistics aren't on their side. It's basic fact that certain areas, schools, neighbourhoods are typically considered more desirable, safer, nicer than some other ones, hence they are more expensive and hence they attract a wealthier population. It's a simple fact of socioeconomics, and I don't think it's elitist in any way to admit that.
I'm still trying to imagine groups of thugs and a lord of the flies mentality in the Kirkland public schools. I think you're asking the wrong question. Why don't look for real world opinions about the elementary schools you're worried about rather than projecting a set of frankly unfounded characteristics onto them based on great school rankings which are already a fairly crude measure of any school.
Ben
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