Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
tl;dr: A 17-year old (Black) Ballard High student allegedly shot a (White) man in the Greenwood neighborhood last weekend. The shooter may also have been involved in a robbery at a restaurant a block away from the shooting. The shooter tried to board a flight to Atlanta but was arrested before departure. No decision yet on whether he will be charged as an adult. Ballard High is one of the more respectable high schools in the Seattle School District. Greenwood, while not the perfect neighborhood, does not usually see this type of violent crime.
Here are my thoughts:
1. Innocent until proven guilty. Fine. I hope the young man gets a decent defense attorney. At this point, based on what's been reported, there's a tiny chance that he was not the shooter and the defense (if he pleads not guilty) will rest on whether he was justified in shooting the victim.
2. The parents of the shooter are absolutely responsible. The parents claim that they observed a change in their son's behavior in the last few months and made efforts to help their son. This, unfortunately, does not resolve their responsibility. Even if they had tied him up and thrown him in a mental institution, the parents still bear the responsibility of their child's actions. This is not to say that the parents should be charged with the crime or pay some blood money. But, the parents are morally responsible for their child's actions because they determine how the child is raised and the influences that the child will experience.
3. Race does play here. Ballard High is a mostly white school with a small minority of black students. The actions of this black student, while not representative of all blacks, is a stain and a setback to the black community at Ballard High and in Seattle. People will say that if this was a white shooter, no one would make a big stink about it. But, that's just the reality of human nature -- we remember what out-groups do and overlook what in-groups do. I don't think being black had anything to do with the shooter's motive or character. I do, however, believe this make life tougher for black students at Ballard High and around Seattle. The truth is white parents will be a bit more worried now if their child is hanging around black students. The truth is white residents will be a bit more cautious when they see a black person walking towards them. Trying to deny this human nature is just pointless. We should acknowledge that these emotional reactions will occur and accept that it will take time for the community to heal and forget this incident.
4. What is happening to our schools? Where are the school administrators? Where are the teachers? Where are our tax dollars going to if they are not being used to identify and help those who need assistance?
5. What is happening to Greenwood and Ballard? These were nice neighborhoods not too long ago. Now, they are the epicenter of petty crimes. While this shooting was an outlier, what has happened to cause the uptick in car break-ins, burglaries, and other lower-level crimes, which eventually escalate into more violent crimes? Instead of turning a blind eye towards this "outlier", won't the community stand up against these intrusions into a peaceful way of life?
1. Yes, innocent until proven guilty and, unless one is privy to the details such as a juror who is specifically called to pass judgment, anyone else's judgment is baseless.
2. I can't disagree strenuously enough with people who blame parents for everything. Certainly the parents themselves are devastated and my heart goes out to them as well as the victim's family. You clearly are not a parent. If you were, you would realize that there are limitations to parental influence. Frankly I would put more blame on a society so awash in lethal guns that literally anyone can obtain one and kill another person in one terrible, regrettable instant.
3. Race baiting? Please don't.
4. What on earth does this have to do with the schools? Nothing.
5. Crime can happen anywhere, and Ballard and Greenwood are no exception. Indeed, I've never thought these historically blue-collar and gritty neighborhoods to be idyllic Lake Wobegons.
Sorry, I realize this is your first post but it just rubs me the wrong way.
No, I don't hold the parents responsible for everything. If you noticed, I held that the school (and to some extent, the community) is responsible.
I think it's a cop out when parents excuse themselves by saying that other forces were at play. Yes, of course there are many things that cause a kid to go wrong. But, the buck stops with the parents. The parents are ultimately responsible for raising their child and turning them into productive members of society. If not the parents, then who?
Seriously, race baiting? As a young black man in the community, I and everyone around me knows that there is wannabe thugs that exist in the black community. Everyone knows that. This isn't the 1950's anymore, the actions of this kid solely rest on his family and his stupidity. Please don't associate me with every African American criminal on the streets. If a young asian kid knifes a women in the streets should my family be scared of me hanging around Asians on campus? It makes no sense at all to say this incident is a setback to the black community.
I'm trying to cut you a bit of slack, bc it's pretty obvious you're not a parent.
a few thoughts:
- mental health care in this country is one of the most underfunded, weakest systems across the board. I'm guessing you don't know anyone closely who has needed this. The premise that a teenager whose behavior had "changed" in the last three months would have radical intervention that quickly and effectively is completely insane. Do you live in this country? I have friends whose child is 23, has been ill since he was a toddler and they still can't get him help, despite ongoing desperate battling by both parents. The system was a joke before they started cutting it ruthlessly a few years ago.
-your tax dollars are funding the schools, paying the teachers, staff, buildings and trying to stretch as far as possible. With the exception of a handful of districts in the US, there is nowhere near enough funding to even cover basic needs. One guidance counselor will be responsible for 4-5 schools. Same with nurses. My daughter's school only had a nurse on the campus for half of one day, with just under 1400 students in the building. The front office staff were left to wing it the rest of the time with zero training. The premise that the school would intervene, again in a matter of weeks without resources or training, might be more insane than the mental health system swooping in.
what this is indicative of is really just a country with no safety net for people in trouble, but plenty of jails to send them to. And that's all going on the premise that early intervention would have stopped this in the first place.
First, the WHO did a study of mental health spending by countries and found that the annual US investment of $113 billion (2011) is in line with other developed countries. (See link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...h-care-system/ )
Your claim that the US mental health system is the most "underfunded, weakest systems" is just not true. This is a typical excuse that people do to first blame funding when the funding is already there. I think you're better off looking at how that funding could be better allocated.
Second, the OECD (group of developed countries) did a survey of educational spending by country and found that the US spent the most per young person than any other developed country. (See link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/25/oecd-education-report_n_3496875.html"]Study: US Education Spending Tops Global List )
Your claim that schools lack funding to cover basic needs is simply untrue. The problem is that we are not getting a very good return on investment on that funding and that flush funding is NOT finding its way to teacher's salaries or basic infrastructure. (Hint: a disproportionate amount is going towards administration and bad teachers) Again, I think you're better off looking at how that funding could be better allocated. I suggest watching the documentary "Waiting for Superman" as a start.
Ballard High School is not a crumbling inner city school as you describe. It is one of the better schools in the Seattle School District and, while there could always be more staff, they have resources to help troubled kids.
Third, we do have some safety nets. Among them is the option to involuntarily commit your child or relative to a psychiatric facility for assistance. (See link: King County Crisis and Commitment Services ) For those lower-income people who have Medicaid, King County provides mental health professionals for counseling. (See link: Outpatient - community mental health treatment ) Most insurance policies in the past have included some sort of mental health coverage as well. And in 2014, all insurance policies are required to include it. There are safety nets in the private and community sphere such as churches, mentorship organizations, etc. There are City and County social workers who will help lower-income families find the resources that they need. The city of Seattlealso funds a number of youth mental health counseling organizations. (See link: Youth Mental Health Counseling - Seattle Human Services Department )
Could the system be better? Sure. But, don't try to tell me that our country (or our county) has no safety net whatsoever. The safety net is there and the funding is there. It's a matter of finding the right resources and shaking the stigma of seeking help for mental health issues.
Finally, I am a parent. I hold myself to the highest of expectations to protect, develop and prepare my children for the rough and tumble world out there. I do not blame the "lack" of funding, I do not excuse the "shortage" of school resources, and I certainly do not rely on a governmental safety net to do my parenting. I hope my children turn out to be productive members of society, but if they don't, I hold myself responsible for failing in that task.
The problem is that too many parents today blame external factors for why their children go wrong. That's human nature and I get it. But, it is up to the parents to do whatever they need to do (beg, borrow, steal) to help their children when they need help and prevent them from being unproductive members of society.
Did the parents of the shooter go through all the above steps and seek out all public and private resources available to turn their problem child around? If so, then I applaud them. If not, then I hold the parents responsible and I also expect that part of the blame rests with the government and community for not making it easier for these parents to access the investments that taxpayers are making into education and mental health to prevent such incidents as this one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalex
I'm trying to cut you a bit of slack, bc it's pretty obvious you're not a parent.
a few thoughts:
- mental health care in this country is one of the most underfunded, weakest systems across the board. I'm guessing you don't know anyone closely who has needed this. The premise that a teenager whose behavior had "changed" in the last three months would have radical intervention that quickly and effectively is completely insane. Do you live in this country? I have friends whose child is 23, has been ill since he was a toddler and they still can't get him help, despite ongoing desperate battling by both parents. The system was a joke before they started cutting it ruthlessly a few years ago.
-your tax dollars are funding the schools, paying the teachers, staff, buildings and trying to stretch as far as possible. With the exception of a handful of districts in the US, there is nowhere near enough funding to even cover basic needs. One guidance counselor will be responsible for 4-5 schools. Same with nurses. My daughter's school only had a nurse on the campus for half of one day, with just under 1400 students in the building. The front office staff were left to wing it the rest of the time with zero training. The premise that the school would intervene, again in a matter of weeks without resources or training, might be more insane than the mental health system swooping in.
what this is indicative of is really just a country with no safety net for people in trouble, but plenty of jails to send them to. And that's all going on the premise that early intervention would have stopped this in the first place.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
