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A group of MI residents say they've had it with the KLCS and want to break away to form their own library. The controversy started when KLCS decided to do a $700,000 renovation of the MI library. That quickly ballooned to a $3.4 million project, which KLCS says is due to rising construction costs. Sure, maybe construction costs have gone up, but 4.8 times?
But the main issue was that the group did not like the proposed redesign. The old library, built around 1992, did not fit the KLCS 'corporate model,' but the MI group says that the new design is sterile, and 'looks like an airport.' The group also says that exiting the King County library system will save money, since MI residents pay $4.4 million per year in taxes to KLCS, while their library only costs $1-2 million to operate. And by stopping the proposed redesign they would avoid closure of the library for one year, which KLCS plans to do for the $3.4 million project.
MI residents will vote on Nov 4 whether to stay in KLCS. I sometimes wonder if we even need public libraries in the internet age. Definitely I would dial back their mission. If I want to read People Magazine, Car and Driver, watch internet porn, or get a tarot card reading, I don't think I need a taxpayer subsidy to do so.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Stop by your local library any afternoon, through closing time and you may be surprised at the full parking lot/garage. One would expect libraries to have lost patrons in the digital age, but not so. Ours (Sammamish WA) was built then determined to be too small within two years, so a bigger one was built and the small one is now the Boys & Girls Club. I don't know who is using it and for what, but they are definitely serving a purpose. If they weren't, Mercer Island would be wanting to eliminate it rather than replace it with there own.
The number of patrons to a free service is not a very good metric. I'd want to know what all those people are doing there. Are they coming to get a free tarot card reading, check out a video of "Deep Throat," read a free copy of People magazine, or to do some serious research? Tell me what pct of those cars in the parking lot are there for research, and I'll tell you by how much I would cut the public library budget.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,576 posts, read 81,186,228 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz
The number of patrons to a free service is not a very good metric. I'd want to know what all those people are doing there. Are they coming to get a free tarot card reading, check out a video of "Deep Throat," read a free copy of People magazine, or to do some serious research? Tell me what pct of those cars in the parking lot are there for research, and I'll tell you by how much I would cut the public library budget.
My observation is that they are mostly parents with kids. The library has many programs including "reading times" for toddlers, and homework help for school kids. In this area if people want to read a particular magazine they can afford to subscribe.
Wutitiz is making two points. One is very valid, and the other is ridiculous and diminishes his valid point.
Mercer Island isn't the only city dissatisfied with the King County Library System. They have a way of not listening to their constituents. I went to some of the meetings about the library replacement in Renton a couple of years ago, and the community was ready to lynch the library officials. King County library wants to do things their way, and in terms of libraries, that means they pretty much all look alike, like the Issaquah Library or the Newcastle library. And they tend to charge the cities more than originally anticipated. There were rumblings in Renton in separating from KCLS, until a compromise was arrived at. People have legitimate gripes at the King County Library System.
Bu to want to cut funds or close libraries? Insane! Libraries are there for a reason, and are usually full. If the kids are spending time at the library, isn't that better than them hanging out on the streets? I utilize the library. They are community gathering places, and allow people to get books and use the computers who can't afford to otherwise.
But I recognize that the trend in our society is not to help out the community, or people who can't afford things. We live in the " I got mine" era, and it doesn't surprise me to see someone calling for libraries to lose funding. They can buy their own books and computers. While we're at it, why don't we close all the public schools? Police? Let the people who need the police pay for them. Parks? We've got our own yards. Why should we allow dirty poor people to pollute them? Maybe we should charge admission to keep the riffraff out.
Wutitiz is making two points. One is very valid, and the other is ridiculous and diminishes his valid point.
Bu(t) to want to cut funds or close libraries? Insane! Libraries are there for a reason, and are usually full. If the kids are spending time at the library, isn't that better than them hanging out on the streets? I utilize the library. They are community gathering places, and allow people to get books and use the computers who can't afford to otherwise.
OP actually brings up a valid point of inquiry, from a budget analysis standpoint. He's asking a question that cannot be quickly dismissed, in times of tighter budgets and additional scrutiny for potential boondoggles and pork projects. Let's rephrase:
For the sake of argument, one might define a "community library" as: "A centralized place of knowledge availability, open to all comers during and beyond business hours, providing opportunity and availability for lending out information to members of the community." Not, "A centralized place for the homeless to gather, or perverts to download pornography, or a community organizing hall for (teens, the elderly, whoever)." If you disagree with my definition, by all means stop reading.
"Paper books" are pretty obviously going the way of the buggy whip. With a ton of data and good models, I bet some smart cookie at US Bureau of Labor and Statistics or similar think-tank already can guess when critical mass will be reached on non-electronic books, magazines, and other obsolete products. The point at which the model collapses and we go all-digital, due to insufficient interest (and profit margins) in the shipping, wait time, and other hassles of paper-anything and being dependent on the mail man or Barnes and Noble to open. You can bet Amazon knows, right now, when the day will come plus/minus a few years, wild cards being disruptive technologies or radical macroeconomic changes. I am certain they've got a dozen smart people on that, and other big-data trends, right this second. With a roadmap and marketing plan already in very early-stages, phrasing the announcement that they'll no longer sell paper books, magazines, etc.
By the time that day comes...and my guts suggest it will happen within 20 years...what, we want to be building more monuments to the past with taxpayer dollars? I have an alternate suggestion.
Factors in the upcoming decline include, btw: inevitable arrival of tablets and devices that are dirt-cheap ($5-10 for simple products) so no rabble-rouser can claim "digital divide" or "elitist" with any credence. 100% community access to free WiFi, see previous. When the idea of carrying around a book or magazine is stupid as carrying the crank handle for a Model T Ford. Because that's what it already is, for a good chunk of the population in Mercer Island especially (one of the highest per-household median incomes, and average education levels, in Seattle metro). Right? What child or adult there, exactly, does NOT have access to Internet resources?
Now: if libraries are being used as play-time or learning centers for kids...school-circles like I did when I was a kid (1970s), or senior centers, or congregation points for transients, that is a very different usage overall than as the fundamental thing we think libraries should be used for, see second paragraph. Point being, who knows exactly? Might that not be a relevant question to ask, for the best disposition of tax dollars?
Assuming I'm correct, how about then a ten year plan to repurpose the library into something more fitting to the Information Age? That may be more cost-effective given radical technology changes (we're obviously in the middle of a devices and online (cloud) services revolution right now).
I believe that's what OP is asking. If I was a taxpayer in MI, I'd demand the same thing rather than fund millions of dollars to renovate the deck chairs on the Titanic. I'd certainly want to detach from a system if said-system was damaging to my tax base, bleeding out far more than a reasonable return on investment (OP's first question). If those dollars "should" be diverted to community centers, teen recreation halls, Internet cafes, senior centers, or other resources for overall community benefit, well, I say "let's ask the question! What is best for both the greater good AND our specific community?"
My observation is that they are mostly parents with kids. The library has many programs including "reading times" for toddlers, and homework help for school kids. In this area if people want to read a particular magazine they can afford to subscribe.
OK, then--I'm on board w/ the library services for children. I remember my mom taking me to the library as a kid, and I think I did get a lot out of it. But I still think that libraries have become way too bloated. Does your branch have a subscription to People magazine, or Car and Driver? Mine (Bellevue) does.
Wutitiz is making two points. One is very valid, and the other is ridiculous and diminishes his valid point.
Mercer Island isn't the only city dissatisfied with the King County Library System. They have a way of not listening to their constituents. I went to some of the meetings about the library replacement in Renton a couple of years ago, and the community was ready to lynch the library officials. King County library wants to do things their way, and in terms of libraries, that means they pretty much all look alike, like the Issaquah Library or the Newcastle library. And they tend to charge the cities more than originally anticipated. There were rumblings in Renton in separating from KCLS, until a compromise was arrived at. People have legitimate gripes at the King County Library System.
Bu to want to cut funds or close libraries? Insane! Libraries are there for a reason, and are usually full. If the kids are spending time at the library, isn't that better than them hanging out on the streets? I utilize the library. They are community gathering places, and allow people to get books and use the computers who can't afford to otherwise.
But I recognize that the trend in our society is not to help out the community, or people who can't afford things. We live in the " I got mine" era, and it doesn't surprise me to see someone calling for libraries to lose funding. They can buy their own books and computers. While we're at it, why don't we close all the public schools? Police? Let the people who need the police pay for them. Parks? We've got our own yards. Why should we allow dirty poor people to pollute them? Maybe we should charge admission to keep the riffraff out.
As I posted above, I think that Hemlock makes a good point about library services and children. Most of the other services provided by libraries could arguably be provided more efficiently by other means, especially in this internet age. During the 2000 election, Bill Bradley proposed in the Dem primaries the idea of 'info stamps.' KLCS limits patrons to 1 hour of computer time per day, which is not much. Wouldn't it be better to just give people 'info stamps' with which they could buy their own computer resources, and use them as best suits their needs?
Bottom line, I question whether libraries are still needed (albeit Hemlock may have changed my mind on this), but I would just keep them around for borrowing of print books, for serious research involving print books and periodicals, and services to children. Cut out the internet porn, tarot card readings, pop DVDs, CDs, and magazines like People. If people want that, they can pay for it out of pocket.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,576 posts, read 81,186,228 times
Reputation: 57813
After this thread I decided to stop by and see what was going on in our library today, the first day of school. I had to park far away from the entrance, the lot and garage were full. The place was full of preteen and teen kids looking for books (yes, the ones with paper) on the shelves. They must have close to 100 computers, in there, not one person using them looked homeless. In the kids section about half the computers were occupied, and they were playing what appeared to be educational games that I didn't recognize and are probably not on their home computer. I do have some advice, watch it in that parking lot, saw several near-misses by parents backing out into the waiting cars.
I did also scan the magazine rack and they have just about every one you can think of
though I didn't see anyone reading them.
As I posted above, I think that Hemlock makes a good point about library services and children. Most of the other services provided by libraries could arguably be provided more efficiently by other means, especially in this internet age. During the 2000 election, Bill Bradley proposed in the Dem primaries the idea of 'info stamps.' KLCS limits patrons to 1 hour of computer time per day, which is not much. Wouldn't it be better to just give people 'info stamps' with which they could buy their own computer resources, and use them as best suits their needs?
Bottom line, I question whether libraries are still needed (albeit Hemlock may have changed my mind on this), but I would just keep them around for borrowing of print books, for serious research involving print books and periodicals, and services to children. Cut out the internet porn, tarot card readings, pop DVDs, CDs, and magazines like People. If people want that, they can pay for it out of pocket.
After experiencing other cities' library systems, I have to say that King County is a pretty good system that's pretty cohesive, and it is a step ahead technology wise than the other systems.
A couple more benefits not discussed: I've just found out that you can even DL eBooks now with your KCLS card. My friend loves the system because she gets to use the Rosetta Stone to teach herself and her kids new languages. It also serves as a place where an immigrant can learn English, get voters pamplets in his native language. You can reserve rooms for meetings, even smaller rooms for studying (though it's so deathly quiet). They also offer a lot of programs for teenagers, even the official SAT preps.
The 1hr computer time a day applies if there are people waiting. If there's no people waiting, then you can go over that.
Magazines: if memory serves me right, if it's current, you can't check it out. It stays in the library until it's not current. Personally, I prefer this way, I don't have to waste my money and no clutter (and less garbage). I used to look through HELLO and HOLA magazines back in the day, they're a bit worse than PEOPLE. But it's always a fun read. I don't see what's wrong with reading these magazines at the library, you have access to all kinds. It's not like you even have a long check out time with the noncurrent mags.
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