How much to pay House Cleaner

[RVD90277]

It's generally going to depend on a free market economy with some basic provisions in place (minimum wage, etc.).

If you truly value the work that they do, please go ahead and pay more for it and that will help determine the market price for such a service. In my case, my alternative is to clean my own house vs. pay $200 to hire someone to clean my house. For that money, I'd rather clean it myself so that's what I do. If the price comes down to $100, I'd probably hire someone. That's my threshold and my price. In the end, everyone gets paid roughly what the market says that their work is worth. Everyone says that teachers aren't paid enough but I don't see people donating a lot to school boards, etc. to do anything about it. I'm fine with teacher pay.

This isn't anything to really complain about, it's just simple economics. We can complain about anything...the price of homes, the price of rent, the price of a cheeseburger, etc. but there are always alternatives that are cheaper if it's important enough for you.

I will admit that my situation was vastly different in the 2 years that I worked as an independent contractor who got paid hourly via 1099. I didn't get paid for travel, etc. but my hourly rate was high enough that I didn't care that I had to commute for 2-3 hours day nor did I care when for 8 months I had to fly out to Dallas, TX every Sunday night and fly back home every Friday night (and of course they didn't pay for travel time although they did pay for my coach class flights). If I took a day off because I got sick, I didn't get paid. I also paid for my own health care, etc.

I work for a company that offers free transportation (ORCA card or vanpool or company run buses) to/from work if you want to take advantage of it. I choose to drive every day anyway. I see these types of perks as a reward for working here. I don't need it nor do I use it and someone else in society can probably have better use for it but that doesn't mean that my company should stop doing it.

As for going to school to earn more money, etc. that's exactly what I did. It isn't rocket science and it isn't hard. I went to High School, got decent grades, went to University, accepted all of the financial aid that I got, graduated, got a job, and paid back my student loans. My parents didn't have to pay for college because I got enough need based aid and worked part time and went to a state school. There's no reason why anyone else couldn't do what I did. Now, if someone is 35 years old and dropped out of High School and has a family and wants to get his/her life together now and do this, I get that it's hard / impossible. It's simply too late. Similar to your health, how you act when your 15 determines where you are when you're 35, 45, 55, etc. And oh yeah, I'm an immigrant too.

RVD.

[flyingsaucermom]

Originally Posted by RVD90277

It's generally going to depend on a free market economy with some basic provisions in place (minimum wage, etc.).

If you truly value the work that they do, please go ahead and pay more for it and that will help determine the market price for such a service. In my case, my alternative is to clean my own house vs. pay $200 to hire someone to clean my house. For that money, I'd rather clean it myself so that's what I do. If the price comes down to $100, I'd probably hire someone. That's my threshold and my price. In the end, everyone gets paid roughly what the market says that their work is worth. Everyone says that teachers aren't paid enough but I don't see people donating a lot to school boards, etc. to do anything about it. I'm fine with teacher pay.

This isn't anything to really complain about, it's just simple economics. We can complain about anything...the price of homes, the price of rent, the price of a cheeseburger, etc. but there are always alternatives that are cheaper if it's important enough for you.


RVD.

I really don't believe in "simple economics", or rather, that there is just one kind of economic system. I've been participating in the local and informal gifting economies for a number of years and even operated one from under my doorstep. In a small system there is no "capitalizing" on anything and people's labor or goods are not dependent on some independent and arbitrary "market value". It's very much to the point and direct and value includes individual context and circumstances. I'm talking about Sacred Economics, the economic system that existed before the free market economy, the one that is still used by billions of people, and perhaps will eventually take a more prominent position again. I don't think it's very scalable, but it certainly can be very precise.

The problem with the free market system is that it doesn't give power and authority to those on the bottom. Those that pay for the service are ultimately the ones that are determining the price, or sometimes you'll have a government authority step in and force it. Rarely do you see the rank and file of the service industries determine their own pay. In theory that's what unions were meant to help mediate.. but it's my understanding that unions have become their own enemy.

Another story from the trenches... when I was at the new hire orientation for the home health care company in Seattle, we were actually given anti-union propaganda. We were told (threatened even) how unions adversely affected employment, benefits and pay. I was really taken back by it... so I went to the National Relations Labor Board's website and started doing some reading. From what I gathered, not only was the company NOT supposed to do that (and in fact I did more researching and learned that unionized home health care workers DO have more comprehensive benefit packages and slightly higher wages!), it was also mandated that information about forming a union must be made available for certain kinds of industries and it even specified home health care (this was three years ago now). It was enough where if I had really been motivated and concerned (I wasn't) I think it was a credible enough to bring to the attention of the NRLB (or someone). My point is, that when you have an undereducated population, one that doesn't have historical reference or intellectual capital, it's very, very hard to advocate for worker's rights... instead they are told that it's largely out of their hands, that it's just the "invisible hand" and one that objective and independent of human corruption and manipulation: just "simple" economics.

[RVD90277]

I guess we'll just beg to differ on this one. I'm much more of a free market economy guy. I provide a service and am paid what companies view is the value of the service that I provide. If I can provide more service to a company or group of shareholders, I'm worth whatever they are willing to pay me. If no company views my skills as valuable then I'm out of work and I need to see if I can get other skills that are valuable to someone. It'd be nice if everyone can make a good living doing what makes them happy but unfortunately life doesn't always work this way. We still need people to do jobs that aren't quite as desirable as others. This means that unfortunately there will be some poor people and there will be middle class people and there will be some really rich people. I don't necessarily like that but I think it's better than the alternatives.

I'm actually fine with employees forming unions if they want to. It's a free country. I'm also fine with companies choosing not to work with unions if they don't want to as well. If the employees get together and form a strong union and make it impossible for the business to operate unless they cooperate, more power to them. Of course if the union takes it so far that the company goes out of business (or the company chooses to move elsewhere), then it's on them too. When the air traffic controller union went on strike, it was their right. When Reagan fired them all, it was his right too. All good in my book.

This thread is about wages for house cleaners and how much folks in Seattle pay for them. There is a wide range of pricing but ultimately the cleaners will get what the market views their value. Some aren't happy with that but I'm fine with it. Maybe they should be paid more...maybe they should be paid less.

[angelenogirl]

Since I pay $15/hr and my housekeeper is happy with that wage, it stands to reason that that's what the job is worth. If it becomes unreasonable, she will leave. And I'll have no problem finding another housekeeper at the stated wage. Housekeepers and computer programmers don't get paid the same.

[RVD90277]

exactly.

$15/hr sounds good to me. if the housekeeper wants more and asks for $20/hr, then it's up to the home owners to agree or refuse. if refused, the house keeper can leave. this isn't slavery. if the home owner can't find anyone else to clean the home for $15/hr, the home owner then has a choice to make...pay $20/hr or don't hire a house keeper, or reduce the scope of work ($20/hr for 3 hours of work rather than $15 for 4 hours of work so less will get done).

even for software engineers, if my company decides that they want to reduce my pay, it's up to me to accept that and work for a lower wage or find employment elsewhere. if i can't find employment elsewhere at the rate that i want, i will probably just work for the lower wage (or quit working altogether if i can afford it (i can't)). heck, if it got to it, i'd probably work for $15/hr if that was the only option i had according to the market.

just reality.

[kaonevar]

Originally Posted by flyingsaucermom

Another story from the trenches...

I could tell quite a few from my 12 years as a computer teacher in inner-city schools in the south. Or from my husband and myself putting ourselves through college & grad school with no parents to help. We worked & got government assistance as RVD did, only, we had health issues pop up that set us so far in debt (no health insurance) that it took a decade to get out from under it.

We're lucky. Amazon has been an amazing opportunity for my husband, and as such, we're out of debt (other than our mortgage) and can afford a housecleaner. (My allergies prevent me from "doing it myself.")
All it could have taken was another disaster while we tried to get through college, and our lives would have been very, very different. Or heck, we could've been non-white ethnicity wise and had that level of prejudice layered on us as well (which shouldn't exist, but does).

I've known too many families who really want to do better and get better jobs, but cancer or 5 million other disasters have stopped them. If they were paid better or even given a little more help from their neighbors, it could mean all the difference. But people are stuck believing that help is a bad thing and the mighty dollar is more important than helping each other. And then we wonder why so many bombings, school shootings, and other horribleness occur.
*sigh*

I've derailed this topic too much I think--continue discussing the value of the dollar.