Seattle restaurants closing at a high rate, thanks in part to the $15 min. wage (Bellevue: sales, 2014)

[CrazyDonkey]

Originally Posted by WriterDude

Must you post name-calling about people you disagree with politically? I don't agree with all of the Tea Party's positions either, but can't you take a moment to try to understand their point of view, rather than opening with insults and alienation? I can certainly see getting a rant out of your system, but after a while, don't you get tired of the hate?

He was replying to someone referring to "pretentious white liberal pricks". That sort of makes "try to understand their point of view" rather moot. In comparison, resorting to a "Tea-Baggers" taunt seems rather restrained.

[Andy Patrizio]

Originally Posted by NCDavid

Yes, I'm sure lots of college educated folks will be rushing to land a $30,000 a year job. I know that's a fortune to shotgun-toting good ol boys in NC but it's starvation wages here.
Ah, NC, home of moderate politics, where the Tea-Baggers are in firm control of the legislature and governor's mansion and they try to ban abortions, restrict voting rights, ban unions, and make sure teachers don't earn more than $15 an hour so their children don't get over-educated. Sounds like you'll fit in real fine back there, bless your heart.

You don't know much about NC, do you? It voted for Obama in 08, Romney barely won in 12, it's elected several Democrat Senators and congressmen, and the whole Research Triangle area full of tech companies and California expats is very blue. South Carolina is a different situation. NC is rapidly becoming a purple state and is much more contentious than it was in the time of Jesse Helms.

[coregis]

Sorry to ruin your thread, but as usual, the facts have a clear liberal bias.

Of the seven restaurants specifically mentioned in Seattle Magazine's March 4 post, one was reported by its owner to be located in the wrong neighborhood for its particular mix of bar space and atmosphere. Another is being offloaded by an owner who has three other restaurants in the city and is opening two more. (A neighboring restaurant is expanding into its space.) A third turned out to be too big for the clientele at its location. Three aren't closing at all, but are getting new chefs because their old boss is moving to Spain to join his partner.


How many owners cited the minimum wage as a factor in their actions? None.

No, the minimum wage isn't forcing these Seattle restaurants to close - LA Times

[Seacove]

Originally Posted by Andy Patrizio

You don't know much about NC, do you? It voted for Obama in 08, Romney barely won in 12, it's elected several Democrat Senators and congressmen, and the whole Research Triangle area full of tech companies and California expats is very blue. South Carolina is a different situation. NC is rapidly becoming a purple state and is much more contentious than it was in the time of Jesse Helms.

I believe NC is going the other way. It probably won't help their tech growth honestly but that's another topic.

[NCDavid]

Originally Posted by Andy Patrizio

You don't know much about NC, do you? It voted for Obama in 08, Romney barely won in 12, it's elected several Democrat Senators and congressmen, and the whole Research Triangle area full of tech companies and California expats is very blue. South Carolina is a different situation. NC is rapidly becoming a purple state and is much more contentious than it was in the time of Jesse Helms.

I do know a little about NC, having lived there until a year ago. I guess you didn't notice the NC in my sign-on name. NC did narrowly go for Obama in his first election, but in the past couple of years reversed on Obama, elected a conservative governor and a conservative majority in the legislature. The majority then voted in a series of conservative laws, including abortion restrictions and voter ID laws. That has prompted a series of Moral Monday protests by liberal and religious leaders,
In addition, once you get outside of the research triangle and Asheville, much of the state is very conservative and the Tea Party has been especially successful in controlling local governments. There have been a number of stories about conservatives in county government passing restrictive voter ID laws in obvious attempts to disenfranchise minorities and students, who tend to vote for liberals.
That may not be the NC you're familiar with, but it's the NC I saw.

[CrazyDonkey]

NC went blue in 2008, but not 2012. Its governor, both senators, and 9 of 13 representatives are Republicans. Granted its politics are not dominated by the Tea Party (although some of its politicians are), unlike South Carolina.

[Seacove]

Originally Posted by coregis

Sorry to ruin your thread, but as usual, the facts have a clear liberal bias.

Of the seven restaurants specifically mentioned in Seattle Magazine's March 4 post, one was reported by its owner to be located in the wrong neighborhood for its particular mix of bar space and atmosphere. Another is being offloaded by an owner who has three other restaurants in the city and is opening two more. (A neighboring restaurant is expanding into its space.) A third turned out to be too big for the clientele at its location. Three aren't closing at all, but are getting new chefs because their old boss is moving to Spain to join his partner.

How many owners cited the minimum wage as a factor in their actions? None.

No, the minimum wage isn't forcing these Seattle restaurants to close - LA Times

You're right but that doesn't support opinions by outsiders so they cherry pick.

On the positive side though, if it serves as a barrier for those same outsiders, that's a bonus. Traffic is busy enough.

[NCDavid]

Originally Posted by Andy Patrizio

You don't know much about NC, do you? It voted for Obama in 08, Romney barely won in 12, it's elected several Democrat Senators and congressmen, and the whole Research Triangle area full of tech companies and California expats is very blue. South Carolina is a different situation. NC is rapidly becoming a purple state and is much more contentious than it was in the time of Jesse Helms.

Ah, I see. You're in California, right? Just trying to get a rise out of us folks up in Washington? Looks like you succeeded.

[WriterDude]

Originally Posted by Seacove

I have seen judgements about the Seattle minimum wage discussed in every conceivable type of media. Yet very few of those live in Seattle, much less Washington State. We have one vocal poster that lives here and wants to move to North Carolina. But judging from their posts, they are more suited to the South anyway.

So you were making a sideways remark about another poster, and about people commenting in other media, in your response to what I said here? And you did that because I don't live in Seattle. Okay. :-)

Originally Posted by Seacove

Maybe Seattle is unique in that a lot of people want to live there, the costs are going up, the housing availability is very slim and politically, the city believes the minimum wage should be raised. They further, made the implementation drag out several years. They have plenty of time to adjust something if need be. If they saw a negative trend, they could push implementation out further even.

The political movement to raise minimum wages is widespread. I'm commenting about it here in the Seattle forum because Seattle had a highly public ordinance on the issue. If I'd stumbled on this thread in the Phoenix forum, that's where you'd see me posting.

But let's explore what you're saying here. "If they saw a negative trend..." means that they would necessarily have to connect the minimum wage law to the trend. Using the posts here as a measure, where observations about potential negative consequences are ridiculed, how exactly would they make the connection that they need to change anything? Restaurant closures happen all the time, so it's virtually impossible to make a concrete association between the relative importance of the minimum wage law and the reasons a restaurant closed.

No, I think it's impossibly unlikely that they would revisit this, because like the ACA, they built the law for political purposes, not for economic reasons. Something would have to change politically, and I don't see Seattle swinging Libertarian or pro-business any time soon. :-)

Originally Posted by Seacove

You may not agree with Seattle but the posts and columns I've seen that predict the apocalypse don't live here. By the time it all rolls out, the amount will likely not seem so much and if it does, we add a couple of years. Big deal.

I'm not sure whether I agree with Seattle. I'm pretty sure I don't, but I'm not certain. A lot of my curiosity about this sort of thing comes from what I think of as the "durability" of an area. Every business can absorb a certain amount of government intrusion, but some things push businesses beyond their durability. Businesses pushed beyond their durability will leave, or close, or stop growing, or what have you. For example, I've noticed gun manufacturers leaving blue states, Polaris left Minnesota, and Boeing set up a plant in South Carolina.

In all of those cases, even with tons of local connections and local conversations, the business made a decision. It had to have been based on some combination of things that the business perceived as causing them harm in some way.

I'm not sure that it's reasonable to assume that this minimum wage law is going to be harmless.

[WriterDude]

Originally Posted by CrazyDonkey

He was replying to someone referring to "pretentious white liberal pricks". That sort of makes "try to understand their point of view" rather moot. In comparison, resorting to a "Tea-Baggers" taunt seems rather restrained.

Look up "tu quoque" some time. :-) In other words, provocation doesn't create justification.

And I totally missed the "pretentious" comment - that was out of line, too. Ugh.