Seattle v Denver (revisited) (Issaquah: theater, live in, housing)

[Fallingwaters]

Originally Posted by south-to-west

Actually, Denver has a good light rail center with a few lines currently in operation that run from Dowtown to the suburbs. In the next 15 years, Dever will be undergoing the largest expansion of rail tranist in the country under their TREX program, adding several new light rail lines, several new commuter rail lines, and several new BRT lines. This is one area that Dever has the clear advantage over Seattle.

Thanks for the correction. I'd read about the expansion but misread it as a new system (and in my travels to Denver just hadn't seen the light rail stations). At any rate, Denver's traffic is better in my opinion.

[my_2_cents]

Originally Posted by npalleroni10

Hi! Seattle's climate is better than Washington, D.C. or Denver, CO. Its climate has four seasons without extreme temperatures with all aspects of a four =-seasons, snow, moderate heat waves, thunder and lightning, fall colors, etc. Also, seattle's temperature variations are slight duirng the duration of a season, and so seasonal conditions are more distinct. That is, it won't snow in spring or fall, be warm, that is above 70 in winter, or be cold during the summer. Seattle also has incredibly splendid natural scenery and a low crime rate.

Sorry but I have to disagree. Extreme temps are part of what make seasons distinct. Seattle's temp range, on average is about 40-70 give or take and lots of rain throughout. Compared to DC it never has any heat wave at all! Thunder and lightning are mild. Very little snow in the city although there's plenty in the mountains. It is extremely beautiful, no question about that, but 4 seasons? Not really. I agree the climate is preferable to DC. I do not agree that it's preferable to Denver! CO has a wonderful climate albeit dry.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by Fallingwaters

I had practically an identical choice and chose Seattle for its climate and because it seemed to have more to do.

However, I wish I could go back and choose Denver. Here's why:

Climate (ironically): I considered Denver's snowfall a downside. I didn't count on the Northwest's gloominess as being a big negative, as I like rainy weather and Seattle has an overall milder temperature. Denver's arid, but at least you get some sunshine in fall and winter.

You get a lot of sunshine all four seasons. City-Data has some graphs, the NWS says 250 clear days, the Chambers of Commerce say 300 sunny days (slight difference in defiition). The snow is not that big of a deal; there are weeks and weeks of sunny, dry weather between snowfalls. There is usually a January thaw (hasn't happened yet this year). Hot in summer for at least a month, sometimes two.

Traffic: I've driven on the beltway and it's no picnic, but Seattle's traffic is more frustrating because it seems like people just drive slowly and city freeway and surface road infrastructure doesn't sustain the traffic levels. Traffic irritates me more here for that reason. While Denver also has congestion, I think its toll road that lets you bypass the city if you need to and the grid-like way the city was built maked it more efficient and traffic is better. Seattle has buses but no light rail as of yet. Denver also doesn't have a light rail infrastructure, but they appear to be making progress on getting one. Seattle and Puget Sound area voters keep turning down proposals for light rail and/or increasing the freeway capacity.

The light rail issue in Denver was discussed upthread. It's up and running in certain areas. Our little burb is slated for a stop.

People: Rather than writing a lot about it, here's a reference: The Seattle Weekly, spoofs some of the strereotypical Seattle attitudes in its weekly "Ask an Uptight Seattleite" column, which I think reflects much of the local culture in a humorous way.
Uptight Seattleite - Columns (Seattle Weekly) Since you'll be new here, there is definitely a sense of local and not-local differentiation in the area. There are quite a few people who either relocated here long ago or are natives who don't really like the growth, traffic congestion, sprawl, and economic competition that the influx of new people has brought.

Denver: I also got, to a lesser extent, a sense of self-promotion and sensitivity (to criticism) from people in Denver. The main difference I saw was that people were a little more talkative and not quite as cliquish. While Denver also has a bit of resistance to what they see as Californication, I didn't hear as many complaints or comments about the influx of new residents there as I've heard here in the Seattle area. Since I have a family, I'd probably prefer the family oriented aspects of Denver. Seattle is not as family oriented -- more empty-nesters or Dual Income No Kids households. From what I've observed and from talking to people I know in Denver, though, despite its reputation for being better for married people with families, Denver's dating scene is not bad.

There definitely is a sensitivity to criticism, but not nearly as bad as Seattle, from the Seattlites I have known. Complaints about newcomers (usually Californians and Texans) come and go. Right now, we're on a downslope.

Both cities are dog-friendly, since you mentioned your pet, but Seattle is dog-friendly to the extreme. You shouldn't have a hard time finding accommodations here.

In contrast to DC, either place will be a cultural and social adjustment from the type A, more direct and aggressive environment you're used to there. You'll either see this as a positive or negative thing depending on your own personality. Some people, however, who expect it to be a positive change are surprised. You might go from being the mellow guy in your office to hearing people comment that they think all people from the East Coast are "rude" or too pushy (this may also be applied as an indirect criticism -- things like "Well, I know you people from back East are just like that, but we think that behavior's rude here.")

Others may post to the contrary, but you can get a much nicer condo for 300k in Denver than you can in Seattle. I don't think that 300k for a nice condo in a nice neighborhood is that realistic. I think 400k is more in the ballpark (still -- wait and see what the market does, maybe).

Originally Posted by Fallingwaters

The Puget Sound area (including Seattle) is also seeing a housing downturn -- it's just not as drastic as what's happening in other cities.

Nor is Denver's (so far).

Yeah, it's odd until you consider that the 3rd most polite city ranking way back in 2004 was arbitrarily done by an octogenarian etiquette teacher. It wasn't a survey.

LOL!


To my understanding, DC has always been nuts. It has its good points, and its suburban housing market went insane, but people have generally been career focused, somewhat materialistic, and pretty direct, almost aggressive, there that I can remember (and this is going back 15 years) -- but also some of the wittiest and funniest people I've met as well. In the eighties and part of the 90's, DC was considered a crime infested rathole. Now it's called a transient city because there's a lot of work there but lots of people only stick around there a few years.

Also, why the "no offense" stuff; as far as I can tell, it's okay to gripe about DC. Everyone does no matter where they're from and few people seem to take it personally. Hell, go to a Redskins, Wizards, Nationals, or Capitals game there and you'll see more fans wearing clothing with the visiting team's logos.

Sometimes the case in Denver, too. I went to the Broncos-Steelers game and there were at least as many Steelers fans as Broncos fans there.

Seattle, and to some extent Denver, it's a different story. In Seattle especially, people will get offended if someone criticizes the city. Pretty strong sense of civic pride here.

Originally Posted by my_2_cents

Denver is also standoffish. In both places people take huge offense if you say even the mildest thing that isn't fully in support of WA or CO. It's very odd considering they don't want a lot of people moving there.

I too miss Seattle though. I think the pull of these places is emotional - those mountains will do that to you.

In CO - if you aren't a skier and/or hiker be prepared to become one.

I gave up skiing and never did much hiking, and I do OK. My favorite winter sport is ice skating.

[seattlerain]

Originally Posted by my_2_cents

Sorry but I have to disagree. Extreme temps are part of what make seasons distinct. Seattle's temp range, on average is about 40-70 give or take and lots of rain throughout. Compared to DC it never has any heat wave at all! Thunder and lightning are mild. Very little snow in the city although there's plenty in the mountains. It is extremely beautiful, no question about that, but 4 seasons? Not really. I agree the climate is preferable to DC. I do not agree that it's preferable to Denver! CO has a wonderful climate albeit dry.

Seattle certainly does have four seasons. They might not be as pronounced as they are in other parts of the country, but we do have four seasons.

[pwright1]

Spring


Summer


Fall


Winter

[Fallingwaters]

I'll also chime in on the Seattle has four seasons comments and agree that it does have four distinct seasons.

Seattle's temperature ranges aren't drastic but, at least since I've lived here, the seasonal changes, while not so pronounced as in some other locations, are still there.

Summer (especially July-August) is probably the most notable change. Summers in the Northwest are really nice -- actually, it gets a little bit hotter than I'd first expected, but it's not usually an oppressive humity laden heat -- the city tends to be a little cooler than the suburbs, so mind the differentiation between "Seattle" and someplace like Redmond or Woodinville.

[my_2_cents]

Well I'm clearly outnumbered by I'll stick to my guns. Lets just say this - I lived in Seattle for about 20 years on and off but I've also lived in Denver and the Northeast and out of all of them, Seattle seems to have less changing weather. Even in fall, some of the trees changed beautifully but there are so many evergreens that the overall effect isn't what you get in New England or the aspen trees in CO. No deep deep snow, and no snow diamonds (no sun). No hot steamy summers. I really thought Seattle, with all those huge beautiful flowers and rain was like spring all the time. I thought winter seems like early spring in the NE ( it snows in early spring) spring in Seattle is spring, Summer was like late spring - a bit warmer. Even fall was a little bit like spring temperature wise and rain-wise.

[seattlerain]

Originally Posted by my_2_cents

Well I'm clearly outnumbered by I'll stick to my guns. Lets just say this - I lived in Seattle for about 20 years on and off but I've also lived in Denver and the Northeast and out of all of them, Seattle seems to have less changing weather. Even in fall, some of the trees changed beautifully but there are so many evergreens that the overall effect isn't what you get in New England or the aspen trees in CO. No deep deep snow, and no snow diamonds (no sun). No hot steamy summers. I really thought Seattle, with all those huge beautiful flowers and rain was like spring all the time. I thought winter seems like early spring in the NE ( it snows in early spring) spring in Seattle is spring, Summer was like late spring - a bit warmer. Even fall was a little bit like spring temperature wise and rain-wise.

Of course fall in Seattle is not going to be like fall in New England, few places are. But, that doesn't mean Seattle doesn't have four seasons. It's really not far to compare a New England fall to a Seattle fall...

[my_2_cents]

Originally Posted by seattlerain

Of course fall in Seattle is not going to be like fall in New England, few places are. But, that doesn't mean Seattle doesn't have four seasons. It's really not far to compare a New England fall to a Seattle fall...

That was my point. You can't compare a Seattle fall to a New England fall. You can't compare a Seattle winter to a New England winter either. You can't compare a Seattle summer to a New England summer. To me, New England has 4 seasons and Seattle doesn't really. All places change a little bit - even Miami does but I wouldn't say it has 4 seasons.

I really think that Seattleites just don't like to admit that some places have more of something than Seattle, or maybe has something better than Seattle. Once I remarked that Seattle doesn't really have very good theatre or arts and got chewed out saying it was just as good as in NY! Please!

[Fallingwaters]

Originally Posted by my_2_cents

That was my point. You can't compare a Seattle fall to a New England fall. You can't compare a Seattle winter to a New England winter either. You can't compare a Seattle summer to a New England summer. To me, New England has 4 seasons and Seattle doesn't really. All places change a little bit - even Miami does but I wouldn't say it has 4 seasons.

I really think that Seattleites just don't like to admit that some places have more of something than Seattle, or maybe has something better than Seattle. Once I remarked that Seattle doesn't really have very good theatre or arts and got chewed out saying it was just as good as in NY! Please!

From my other posts, you'll probably see that I'm not "rah, rah, all things Seattle rule!" by any stretch; however, while Seattle doesn't go through the pronounced seasonal changes, as mentioned, you can tell one season from the next -- although, here, it doesn't fall as close to the official calendar season changes as it does in other places. Also, overcast is pretty much a constant through 3 of the 4 seasons (sun breaks and mountain appearances may vary).

A matter of semantics, really, but I see where you're coming from -- when it comes to some things, Seattle doesn't compare. That's true.