Why are people so smug and flaky here? (Seattle: neighborhood, college)

[Seacove]

Originally Posted by marlowebeach

What I see as smugness here is the insistence that this is the Best Place In The World, everything about it is perfect, and if you disagree, you must be stupid, or provincial.

As an unapologetic booster, if someone doesn't like it here the way many of us do, I don't think they are stupid, I think "then move to a place you love and give us the space". You admit the traffic and we all see how many are moving here. Why stay and complain? And if it's because of a job or other reason, that's a choice you made, it doesn't mean we have to listen to the negativity. That smiling passive-aggressive co-worker may not say it, but that's what they're likely thinking. Since you say you are leaving in a month, you can say you tried Seattle, it didn't suit you and move to a place you like more. Thankfully, different places appeal to different people.

[marlowebeach]

Originally Posted by Seacove

it doesn't mean we have to listen to the negativity. That smiling passive-aggressive co-worker may not say it, but that's what they're likely thinking.

I'm not sure what negativity you think my coworker is judging me for. IRL I've tried really, really hard for a couple of years to avoid mentioning anything beyond the standard intermittent gripes most people have -- traffic, City Hall, sometimes the weather. I was more honest about my feelings the first year or so when people would ask how I was adjusting, in the blunt, East Coast way, but people's reactions were so over the top when I said it was kind of a rough transition (instant defensiveness, "don't let the door hit you") that I learned to pretend I think it's all at least a 7/10. Oh well. I'm out soon, and I won't be one of the people that sticks around this board to bash it years after I've left. I haven't found much joy in living here though, and I've thought a lot about why, since I was basically a happy person for 30 years pre-Seattle, and I find the root causes really interesting. People phrase the issues differently, on this board and elsewhere, but we mostly seem to be identifying the same disconnects in social expectations. Not that Seattle is a BAD place. But it does seem to be a significant outlier.

[Seacove]

Originally Posted by marlowebeach

Oh well. I'm out soon, and I won't be one of the people that sticks around this board to bash it years after I've left.

Thank you for that, I've always thought that was a really weird obsession a few have. Good luck to you!

[KonaldDuth]

People in Seattle, being mostly young or mid-career professionals, are very focused on themselves. It's not the type of town where people are spontaneous and fun.

[homesinseattle]

Give love, get love. I notice in myself, the days I have a bad attitude, don't make an effort to connect, walk around with a frown and preconceptions, Seattle frowns back. My attitude in general is that I can warm even the coldest heart with a heartfelt smile and trying to reach the person on their level. Is there some "snark" around here? Absolutely. There are also a lot of good people. I know, some of them are my friends. At the end of the day, you don't need or want 100 friends. Make a few good ones, enjoy life, see the world and Seattle through a positive lens. Some days will disappoint you, some days will be great. Your attitude will bring you a lot of joy though, however the day evolves.

[CrazyDonkey]

"Smug" basically means "self-satisfied" - the more you think you deserve, simply by being you, the smugger you are.

[cmswazey]

How much of the Seattle freeze is just the newbie takes awhile to fit in scenario? I say that because I felt like I experienced it when I got here. And I met another NY person who was like OMG I hate them! I now think it was just a matter of my accent being noticeable and I'd say Puyallup wrong and stuff like that. Plus, I was an NCOs wife living in Tacoma and if there's one thing Tacomaites hate- it's the military though they're more than happy to take their money, of course. I had an excellent job and credit history going back 6-7 years (great for a 25 year old) and we were denied credit and I was discriminated against for jobs. I moved up one county to King County and nobody there cared what my husband did for a living. So, see, I had a double whammy against me at first.

Once I got away from Pierce county and dampened down my NY accent (upstate NY but still a bit broad) got a job and started making friends of my own, things were fine.

[Ira500]

Originally Posted by cmswazey

How much of the Seattle freeze is just the newbie takes awhile to fit in scenario? I say that because I felt like I experienced it when I got here. And I met another NY person who was like OMG I hate them! I now think it was just a matter of my accent being noticeable and I'd say Puyallup wrong and stuff like that. Plus, I was an NCOs wife living in Tacoma and if there's one thing Tacomaites hate- it's the military though they're more than happy to take their money, of course. I had an excellent job and credit history going back 6-7 years (great for a 25 year old) and we were denied credit and I was discriminated against for jobs. I moved up one county to King County and nobody there cared what my husband did for a living. So, see, I had a double whammy against me at first.

Once I got away from Pierce county and dampened down my NY accent (upstate NY but still a bit broad) got a job and started making friends of my own, things were fine.

So you loyned how to tawk?
Actually, I never noticed an upstate NY accent. Most of my relatives were from The Bronx.

[cmswazey]

Originally Posted by Ira500

So you loyned how to tawk?
Actually, I never noticed an upstate NY accent. Most of my relatives were from The Bronx.

Upstate NY accent is a bit like a watered down NYC accent.

Like to this day I still say bawwwt for bought.

Oh, and anyone who wants to know how to make a good sausage and pepper sandwich-I can tell you how. For one thing, it's the grease...

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by marlowebeach

I moved here three years ago, after living in AL, TN, NC, CT, and ID. Leaving again in a month.

I understand what trysometh is talking about, I think.

The passive-aggressive thing does jump out at you if you're not used to it. I think it's that the baseline polite friendliness and fake social interest people show here to everyone they are required to interact with, such as at work, is actually higher level than in other parts of the country. If someone back East acted the way most of my coworkers act here in terms of their apparent interest in my life and overall friendliness, my assumption would be that they saw me as a potential acquaintance beyond working hours. As an outgoing person who always had tons of friends before I moved here, I've tried to follow up on that assumption many times and it actually seems to startle Seattleites that I thought they actually liked me all right and might want to get a drink or something. The flip side is that in non-mandatory contexts, places where people mingle in the rest of the country, people here are much less friendly and interested in strangers than anywhere else I've lived.

On the flakiness front, it does seem worse here. I think it's partially structural. Between the dark, the wet, the traffic, and the parking, it's hard to get up the enthusiasm to follow through with plans sometimes. And then there's also a sense of low social expectations, at least to me. Not a lot of urgency to expand one's network of friends, or meet new people, or even get out of the house, apart from two months of summer.

What I see as smugness here is the insistence that this is the Best Place In The World, everything about it is perfect, and if you disagree, you must be stupid, or provincial. This comes out in very self-satisfied (smug) statements that things which seem undesirable to outsiders are actually good things that speak to the superiority of Seattleness. I've had people tell me that not being interested in meeting anyone or making any more friends is a good thing because it shows you have discriminating taste, for example.

Just curious where you got these impressions; did you work in just one or two offices for those 3 years? If so, is it fair to judge an entire city by that? I lived in Seattle for over 10 years, and never encountered co-workers who showed interest in my life outside of work. That's considered intrusive. If someone chooses to share something about their kids, or a fun weekend they had, people respond politely, but there's no follow-up, the points aren't pursued. People MYOB at the office, like they should. I never experienced flakiness, either. Someone invites you to a party, you go. What do you mean, it's hard to get up the enthusiasm? Don't you enjoy socializing with friends? I don't get this. And I've never run into the Seattle-Is-Best attitude, either. Maybe a lot of this is a generational thing, or a techie thing?

I'm not saying Seattle is great. I'm saying I've never run into those particular issues. What was glaring about Seattleites to me was their reserved nature, the lack of friendliness, generally. If you made friends in college and stuck with them, that would be your group for the rest of your stay in Seattle, with rare exception. No friendly smiles when passing on the street, no banter while waiting in line at the cashier's, except when foreigners or a visitor or recent transplant from California spoke up, and even then, as often as not, they wouldn't get much of a response.