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So I'll begin with the usual disclaimer, that obviously NOT ALL women or women in Seattle are like the ones in my following anecdote. But I'm sharing this anecdote because it wasn't the first time that some woman shut the conversation down because she had to educate me about proper anti-racist politically correct ways of engaging others. Why do they call this kind of arrogant condescension "mansplaining?"
Earlier this week I was chatting with a colleague I hadn't yet gotten to know very well. I wasn't trying to pick her up or get into her pants. She's not my type; maybe too young, maybe too old, maybe to big, maybe too clumsy, whatever... That's not important. I was genuinely interested in her as a person and wanted to get to know her better. Kind of like you might have genuine human curiosity and enjoy a conversation with an 80 year old or a 10 year old...
I can't remember exactly how the conversation began but it was proceeding smoothly and in good humor. We started talking about Seattle (don't worry, I try to muster all my enthusiasm and good manners and not to say anything unkind about the Emerald City at first). So I wanted to know if she's lived in Seattle for long and I asked something to the effect, "Are you originally from Seattle?" Big mistake. She proceeded to educate me about how tactless and wrong it was to ask a question like that*. Now this is a big strapping white girl of Irish descent... If it were an obvious visible minority or had she spoken with an accent, I might have avoided the question altogether until having gotten to know her better. I'm familiar with the hypersensitivity to microaggressions in the 21st century especially here on the "progressive" west coast. Is it really worth stepping on those eggshells just to possibly get to know somebody or have a pleasant conversation?
So otherwise my results of conversations attempting to get to know women in Seattle usually run end in a frosty roadblock when the little darlings icily ignore me or shut any conversation down. Of course their flattering themselves that I already want to get into their pants or something... I don't even know them yet?!?!? Why are they so reluctant to be open to conversations and getting to know new people? Far and away the best conversations I've had since I've been here have been with senior citizens. Certainly nobody was trying to get into anybody's pants. But what a shame that outside of the that demographic, it's been impossible to have a delightful and sincere exchange of any depth. Maybe just everybody else is just too busy to have any time for that kind of thing. Sad.
I'll return to my hypothesis about the women in Seattle that they're suffering from an overload of attention... and are overwhelmed by all the choices. If a dozen or so random charming strangers chat them up each week, there is no urgency to take each opportunity seriously... especially if she's already seen better offers. Indeed it becomes a nuisance. I apologize for coming back here and repeating many of the same themes. I'm sure many of the ladies here will counter that many of their single women girlfriends aren't getting any attention at all. I regret that marketplace for love and mating is terribly unfair; the spoils go to the young and beautiful, to the charming and successful. Indeed there is a winner take all element to it. Sadly I must conclude that I'm probably also on the losing side of that equation. None of us is entitled to love or "a soulmate." Nobody is interested in the leftovers, not even the leftovers themselves. Sure I'd enjoy to share my life with somebody with similar values and interests on the same wavelength. But the longer I am single, the more peculiar and harder to match that wavelength becomes.
So where am I now? I'm just doing my best to keep my mind busy with my own work and projects. Recently I've been going to associations and events dedicated to the real estate industry. Even though this isn't the male heavy, tech industry, all the events are always disproportionately attended by males - usually quite a bit more than 10 to 1. Of course I'm hardly going to these things with the purpose to meet women, but come on ladies, I thought there were plenty of women real estate agents? Where the hell are they? So when the folks among us say that the sad and lonely single women they know aren't getting any attention, the only way I think that this is possible is if they aren't getting out. So tell 'em to straighten up their backs, try to put a smile on their faces and a sparkle in their eyes and get out there. No doubt they'll be swamped. And if they aren't getting swamped, then they may have to join me while I work out at the gym or am getting my style makeover at Nordstrom in attempt to improve my presentation.
Rule #1 in life for males: be attractive
Rule #2: See above
With women you can literally get away with murder if you're attractive, average or less is invisible and basically doesn't deserve to even exist in their eyes (serious).
Last edited by thatguy950; 07-20-2016 at 01:42 PM..
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Male or female, asking ""Are you originally from Seattle?" or "Where are you from" is asking for trouble, because it can easily be taken the wrong way. A much more appropriate, and less controversial question would be "How long have you lived here?". It does not imply that the person is a transplant or immigrant, and is inclusive of both natives and others.
The fact is that in King and Snohomish counties, only 44% of residents are natives of Washington state. Some of the natives may resent that, some transplants from other states, especially California may be wary of revealing their previous location until they know more about how "welcoming" the person might be. Some of those from other countries may also be wary, especially if they have read threads here about foreigners coming here and taking away jobs. One's race, nationality, and even previous home location is best left for them to volunteer. More typical and acceptable when meeting new people has been "what do you do?" which doesn't assume that the person works, it leaves open a dignified response from people who are in school, retired, independently wealthy, or even looking for work. Asking "where do you work" also makes assumptions that can sometimes trigger negative reactions.
I used to believe that asking someone 'where they're from' was cool/inoffensive.
I have gotten so many negative responses where people start talking about how much they hate where they're from...etc...(their problem, clearly)
As for the 'racism' aspect, I'd say that was her problem as well. Regardless of your skin color or any other aspect of you, you can be from anywhere...
That being said, I have learned as well to be more accommodating to other's perspectives/problems (not that I wasn't before, it seems an endless task to develop this way of being) and @Hemlock140 made a good post here.
It's about the rigidity of the question, ambiguity/openness is best
So I'll begin with the usual disclaimer, that obviously NOT ALL women or women in Seattle are like the ones in my following anecdote. But I'm sharing this anecdote because it wasn't the first time that some woman shut the conversation down because she had to educate me about proper anti-racist politically correct ways of engaging others.
You missed out the bit where she explained the "proper anti-racist politically correct way" to you. What did she say was the correct way?
Are you sure you didn't fall into the trap of actually asking her in a way that really sounded like you were asking what ethnicity she is?
Are you sure you didn't fall into the trap of actually asking her in a way that really sounded like you were asking what ethnicity she is?
This. IME, it's an unusual question. I lived in Seattle for a long time, and no one asked me where I was from. IME nobody does that. So if someone were to be the receiver of such a question, it would signal to them that they stick out in some way that motivated the speaker to ask them to explain their presence in Seattle.
But maybe with so many more transplants in the city now, everyone asks that of everyone. But I'd think that under those circumstances, the question would first be, "Are you from here", and then "What brought you here" or "Where are you from".
Male or female, asking ""Are you originally from Seattle?" or "Where are you from" is asking for trouble, because it can easily be taken the wrong way. A much more appropriate, and less controversial question would be "How long have you lived here?". It does not imply that the person is a transplant or immigrant, and is inclusive of both natives and others.
I appreciate the feedback. No doubt I could have phrased it better. But it was a lightweight little conversation. If we have to parse our words so carefully with such thought to diplomatic formulation, we shouldn't be surprised that conversations and relations grind to a halt or don't ever take off at all. In this case I can't exactly remember how I put it. Maybe it was; "Did you grow up around here?" or "Are you native to the Seattle area?" We were already talking about this city and something about the weather or cycling around town or something. I was curious if it was her home town or if she was a transplant. So "Have you lived here long?" leaves things open to interpretation, two years may or may not be a long time, but it hardly is enough time to account for growing up and being forged in a particular local culture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140
The fact is that in King and Snohomish counties, only 44% of residents are natives of Washington state. Some of the natives may resent that, some transplants from other states, especially California may be wary of revealing their previous location until they know more about how "welcoming" the person might be. Some of those from other countries may also be wary, especially if they have read threads here about foreigners coming here and taking away jobs. One's race, nationality, and even previous home location is best left for them to volunteer.
If we can't discuss anodyne little topics like where we're from, what hope have we? Is the level of tension and hostility here really so great that it would be terrible if somebody were from elsewhere, whether Atlanta, California, Africa or Asia? Indeed that might make their observations about their time in Seattle all the more interesting. Respectfully, that would be interesting to hear their perspective no matter from where it originates. When we try to reach out to others, whether they are similar or very different, we are of course obliged to bring the our best effort for respect and sensitivity. If we sense that the direction of the conversation is difficult or unwelcome, then of course we can redirect it. On the other hand when others reach out to us in good faith, aren't we obliged to bring our best efforts of patience to understand and respond fairly their attempted connection?
In this case it might have been possible to discuss her community or what she likes to do there and how things have changed. Instead I got a lecture about how one should not discuss those things. Did she ever show any curiosity about me or ask me where I was from? No. Nobody ever asks that. Either I'm not interesting enough? Or they're just not curious. Or maybe they've been cowed to not make any conversation because they're so afraid of all the taboo topics.
Since I've returned to the United States it's been peculiar to notice how much emphasis is being placed on the value of "diversity." Maybe this is a new thing; maybe it's a Seattle thing. But isn't it sad if we're so cowed by our fears of offending people that we shrink back from reaching out to them? Diversity: look but don't touch or interact. What good is it all if we are afraid to actually try to connect with these people who are already our neighbors and colleagues and actually try to get to know them and become friends? Instead of showing any interest in getting to know different people and risking off ending them or exposing our ignorance, we choose to remain politely ignorant. Instead of genuine curiosity about the foreign and distant cultures, whether from California or Somalia, we choose to freeze up and reduce our interactions to as frictionless as possible polite market transactions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140
More typical and acceptable when meeting new people has been "what do you do?" which doesn't assume that the person works, it leaves open a dignified response from people who are in school, retired, independently wealthy, or even looking for work. Asking "where do you work" also makes assumptions that can sometimes trigger negative reactions.
It's so funny that you suggest that asking somebody what they do for a living. I can't tell many times I've heard that this topic is even more taboo or sensitive because so many people are downwardly mobile, underemployed or otherwise not living up to their ambitions. My experience quite well confirms this and so many have not been enthusiastic about discussing their work; the discomfort or shame have been obvious so I have long stopped asking about this early in any acquaintanceship.
This. IME, it's an unusual question. I lived in Seattle for a long time, and no one asked me where I was from. IME nobody does that. So if someone were to be the receiver of such a question, it would signal to them that they stick out in some way that motivated the speaker to ask them to explain their presence in Seattle.
But maybe with so many more transplants in the city now, everyone asks that of everyone. But I'd think that under those circumstances, the question would first be, "Are you from here", and then "What brought you here" or "Where are you from".
As I mentioned, she's a big strapping girl of obvious Irish-American ancestry. I know well enough to tread carefully around such ethnic and racial minefields. End result: these folks get ignored.
If Seattleites automatically assume bad faith and racism in any interaction, they really can't be helped. Paranoia, hysteria, neurosis might be epidemic.
Obviously, since we're colleagues, she is here and not a tourist. I was looking to learn more about her biography. Doesn't want to share? Fine. End of conversation. But why the lecture on "correct" conversationalism in order to shut it down? I try to be nice and reach out and get to know a colleague? I get punished. You Seattleites tell us newcomers, don't expect a red carpet, don't expect the natives to welcome you or to try to get to know you. Fine I try to make an effort and this is the response I get on several occasions.
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