How good is Seattle compared to Boston and NYC in software jobs and in dealing with homeless people and traffic problems (Olympia: appointed, transplants)

[eugene_b]

Hi, I am a software engineer living in NJ and working in NYC. My commute to work is usually 1h10m, they pay me very decent money and jobs are plenty, in case something happens to my current company. However the commute and NYC itself are killing me. If you want to spend time in downtown (parks, galleries, concerts, etc), especially after dark, you have to deal with all the homeless people and look at the insane amount of trash lying all over the place. If you decide to go relax in nature on the weekend, Jersey Shore for instance, driving will usually take looooots of time (3h that should normally take 1h15m) and you better wake up and come early because the parking lots will be fully very fast.

I've been looking for a place to settle down and have been researching Seattle and Boston a lot.

I've been to Boston a couple of times and know some people from there. From what I can tell job market is no worse than NYC however I saw pretty much the same traffic and homeless people problems. I didn't get a chance to drive there on the weekend yet so not sure how that goes.

However, I've never been to Seattle so I know nothing about it. From what I could tell - house prices are good, much better than Boston and NYC/NJ, especially if you factor in commute time. I also very much like the nature there because I am into mountaineering and I am not getting much of it where I am now (Boston does have White Mountains but they seem to be pretty far still).

If someone have lived in any of the above places, could you please let me know your opinions about Seattle and what you liked and didn't like there.

Thanks!

[jtilley7]

I've lived in Boston my entire life and will be moving to Seattle at the end of September. I work in healthcare so I can't comment on tech jobs. My family and I have gotten sick of the Boston weather. Winters are miserable if you own a house and have to deal with the snow before and after work. Summers are hot and humid which is also miserable. The cape and Maine are nice in the summer but you have to deal with the same traffic that you are currently dealing with on the Jersey shore. Fall is the only nice time in Boston in my opinion which only last a couple months. If you like to do things outside then your going to either be freezing or dying from the heat and humidity the majority of the year. If you rent or own a condo then the winters can be a little more bearable because the shoveling for the most part will be done by someone else. My advice would be to stay away from Boston unless there is something in particular pulling you there.

Seattle is beautiful, you can't beat the scenery. The weather is infinity better in my opinion, food and beer are great too. Housing market is crazy, be prepared to pay well over asking price but still more affordable than the Boston area.

[perigee]

Your three biggest complaints for Boston and NYC are the three biggest complaints of the Seattle area. The cost of living, which is only marginally better then those cities, the traffic, remember we don't have the subways or the T as an alternative plus we have geological issues with any attempts to expand highways and roads and finally the homeless situation. While NYC has a larger number of homeless then Seattle, they are more visible here with tents popping up all over the city and beside the highways.

Transplants tend to do well if they're willing to overlook the issues because they're escaping extreme weather or they're blown away from the scenery and the abundance of outdoor activities. Just remember that that trails fill up and that the slog to get to trail heads can be a challenge even on the weekends.

Plan a visit for November when we tend to be gloomy, keep in mind that winters on the east coast still have sunny days that are magnified by the snow bouncing the light around, we don't have that, days are short and clouds are low.

[misscross]

visit now in the summer, and then visit again in the Fall/Winter. I have not lived in Boston or NYC but multiple transplants I have met from those areas prefer it here and have decided to stay in Seattle metro long term.

Homelessness is not an issue in Seattle's suburbs. In Seattle itself there are more homeless but hasn't been any issue when we go downtown for a show or dinner or other activities.

[fluffydelusions]

I grew up and lived in New England and also lived in NYC for 12 years. I don't live in Seattle but about 60 miles south in Olympia. Can't speak on the job aspect however traffic is pretty bad around the whole area on the i5. Took an hour and 45 minutes to get to Seattle last time I went. I can actually get to Portland in about the same time. The thing about the homeless here is they are in a lot more places where as in NYC they are in pockets of certain neighborhoods. You will often see tents just setup on the side of the road in seemingly random spots. There is actually a homeless encampment in the woods behind my apartment complex. That said, none of the homeless here I've come across are actually aggressive from my experience. I've never felt in danger when being around them. Can't say the same about some of the homeless in NYC. You will also notice most businesses have locks or codes on the bathroom doors to keep the homeless out. I understand not getting the nature experience living in NYC. That is something I missed when moving from New England. This whole region is like a paradise if you are into outdoor activities. So much to do and you would not be disappointed. Best place I ever lived for outdoor stuff. You will also notice people here don't believe in AC lol. This summer hasn't been so bad so far but it did hit 90s a couple times and looks to hit it a couple more times. Thing is here unlike the northeast it gets really cool at night like in the 50s so even if it is really hot in the day it is nice at night and you don't need an AC but some days can kinda suck if it is really hot out and you have no AC. Also Seattle prices are no where near as bad as NYC/Boston yet and utility prices are a lot cheaper here. Don't have to pay those super high con Ed bills during summer and keyspan prices in winter! My car insurance also got a lot cheaper here.

[eugene_b]

Thanks a lot for replies, that helps a lot! I think for the homeless people, if they are at least not aggressive, I can live with that. My NYC experience has been that many of them are nuts and I am feeling very uncomfortable when for instance some homeless guy comes into metro car and starts doing random things and screaming. That's for good and ok neighborhoods of course, God forbid you end up in a bad one somehow. My Boston experience has been that parks and downtown are not very walkable after dark and almost any place has beggars at the front door who very actively ask you for money when you enter and leave the place.

As for winter, while I do appreciate sunlight we get and never lived in a cloudy place such as Seattle, the winters have been pretty depressing here - our roads are bad, congestion is very high, they clean them very poorly and due to temperature fluctuations, it's often slush/ice. As a result in cold times I am mostly stuck at home because I am afraid to crash on roads even for local trips such as going to rock climbing gym. I think if it's rainy but without ice/slush, I can absolutely live with that.

I do love outdoor activities very much and it's one of the big criteria for me. How are weekends and work day evenings usually? Is it realistic to go kayaking/biking/hiking somewhere local on a work day or is it all jammed? And on the weekends do you usually end up having to plan outdoor activities ahead of time (wake up early so that you can beat traffic and win parking lot) or is it realistic to sleep in and then drive 1-2 hours to some very scenic place.

To a certain degree I appreciate my time here in NYC because I had to organize and schedule time very strictly. For instance after I spend 2h30m commuting, there is not much time slacking around if I want to do something extra in the evening. And on Friday evening you have to go to bed early so that you can wake up early if you are hoping to do something on the weekend. But I also very much miss my times in upstate NY where I could toss a bike or kayak on my car in the morning and then go to some local lake or trail after work and relax for an hour or two. Or stay late on Friday night to watch movies and have dinner somewhere and still be able to go out on Saturday without all the parking lots everywhere being already full.

Also would be curious to hear about software engineer jobs. I can research this more or less online but if someone has info if opinion, I would be very curious to know whether there is a healthy mix of big and small businesses there with good compensations or whether I'll have to fight for a position at one of the few large corps such as Amazon.

[Gardyloo]

Well to a degree it's all subjective of course, but I have a fair amount of experience (either personal or immediate family) in the Boston/NYC (and I'll throw in Philly) areas, and - my view - here's how Seattle stacks up.

Housing cost - Central Seattle is cheaper than Manhattan and Brooklyn, around the same or maybe a little lower compared to most parts of Boston (city) and the burbs are comparably priced when you factor in parallel commute times. (Seattle is more expensive than Philly unit-for-unit.)

Homelessness - Much ado is made locally about a problem that wouldn't raise eyebrows in most other major US cities.

Traffic - Nowhere near the NYC/Boston (or LA/SF) levels. Again, most complaining seems to come from people who haven't lived in other big American cities. Seattle's geography (lakes, hills) makes for narrow infrastructure corridors so traffic can be a chronic problem on certain routes, but much of the debate is hyperbole, pure and simple.

Weather - More gray days (but look at the statistics - not that many more) than in Boston/NYC, but way, way fewer snow days, way, way fewer hot/humid days (most people don't even own window air conditioners.) In terms of limiting access to outdoors activities, you're much better off in Seattle than in any east coast major city.

Proximity to outdoor activities - You can see three national parks from downtown Seattle, all of which can be reached in three hours or less. That's not to mention tens of thousands of square miles of national forests, an inland sea, numerous lakes, waterfalls, islands... There's just no comparison.

Things you didn't ask - No state or local income tax, so your take-home pay will be much higher on the same salary. Utilities are cheaper and you'll need less of them - less heating in the winter, a/c in the summer, and cheap hydroelectricity. West coast lifestyle - people are protective of their leisure time and most still find a happy equilibrium point on work vs. non-work.

Tech employment - lots and lots of employers up and down the corporate scale - startups to big dogs. If you're any good I can't see unemployment as an issue at all.

[Kayela]

With regards to outdoors activities. I'm an avid hiker, snowshoer and Nordic skier - if you can stick to the more challenging terrain, it'll be much less crowded. Plus in the winter, so long as you don't mind some drizzle - you'll have even the most popular trails practically to yourself. Seattle people are not morning people, if you can get your butt outta bed, you can beat the majority of people to the trailhead. I live right near DT Seattle, and I can be at the closest pass in under an hour. Very few other major cities can boast that.


Our Downtown has the same systemic issues with homeless as any other downtown I've visited. Yes, there will be people sleeping in doorways come evening, the parks close to downtown will definitely have nighttime occupants, and while most will leave you alone, some can get very aggressive. When I lived DT I was followed multiple time with someone cursing at me and doing everything to get in my personal space without quite giving me grounds to call the cops. The city has contemplating measures for aggressive panhandling, but right now there's really nothing the cops can do.


Our traffic is bad on a much smaller scale than the cities you're used to, but we continuously earn a spot as one of the worst cities in the nation for traffic. The roads are small, packed with people and there's just no real alternative routes due to our challenging geography. We don't have as much traffic, but what there is can be more frustrating due to the poor infrastructure.


Employment for tech is right up there with the Bay Area. We have tech jobs coming out our ears, and more companies are setting up shop here all the time. However, we also have a good size pool of top talent competing for those jobs. So it can still be a challenge to get one of those jobs if your resume isn't up to snuff.


For the weather, most people just seem to need to experience it for themselves. I'd say give it two years. You'll know the first year whether or not it's for you, and the second year will either drive you to the breaking point (after which you move to CA) or drive home what a great decision you made.


Sounds like you're ready to try something new, so why not apply to a few companies that are known for paying relocation (Amazon, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, etc)? If you get something great, if not then you can consider intensifying your search or sticking with what you've got.

[cmswazey]

Seattle's great but I do think the homeless situation is kinda bad. And I have seen homeless in residential neighborhoods, albeit far less than downtown or other urban centers.

Suburbs are ok as long as it's not a neighborhood with many foreclosured homes.

[daberkow]

You are not going to escape the trailhead madness, especially on weekends. After work you can hit the foothills in Issaquah or something, but only in summer as it gets dark early, and it's not that spectacular compared to what is 2-3 hours out. Evenings I tend to just do city park walks rather than wasting time on a drive. It is amazing here when the weather cooperates, but it's more crowed than anywhere I've ever seen. Getting a reserved campsite requires up to 9 months advance planning. People wait hours for a ferry on nice weekends. Beating the rush at the crack of dawn often backfires as you get a lot of fog and throngs of other early risers. I try to time for when the dawn patrol will be giving up their spots. If you're mountaineering, all the major routes will be conga lines.

Much worse than the homeless is the amount of property crime. Seattle has the fourth highest property crime rate in the nation, and it is glaringly obvious. It can be pretty shocking as it does not seem to be confined to problem areas and nobody seems to care about it. You have to accept the fact that someone will be in your car at least once a year, if not more. I'm the only one in my office without a home break-in.