How much does it really take?

[noah]

Originally Posted by Bluefox

Meh. You can still do it on 180-190k.

Hell, I make a peasly 100k and manage to survive in a nice, quaint area.

Its all perspective and lifestyle is very subjective but we were doing it with 2 kids on 100k LESS than what you say and living in the city. And there are many more raising kids in the 100k or less range than the 180k+. In large part, if your buying today, that additional income is going to pay your payments on that $800k house vs. renting at in the low 2k's.

[Canamlian]

Originally Posted by moonie45

Is Seattle worth the expensive housing?

You'll find opinions all over the spectrum on this board on that question, but ultimately no one can answer that for you. It really depends on what is important to you. As a general rule, if the outdoors aren't important to you, then it's probably not worth it.

Originally Posted by moonie45

This will sound crazy, but I've actually never visited.

You should definitely try to spend time up here before you make a decision. Don't just do touristy stuff either - try some commuting routes, hang out in some non-touristy neighborhoods.

[Haakon]

How much does it take? Quite a bit even for the bare minimum
http://selfsufficiencystandard.org/s...WA2017_SSS.pdf go to page 10.
It costs more on the eastside than in Seattle.

king5.com | UW study: Seattle cost of living over $75,000

A new UW study says it cost more than $75,000 a year for a Seattle family to make ends meet.

The Self Sufficiency Study, written by three UW researchers, used national data and guidelines to come up with the report. It says a family of four, with two adults, a school-aged child, and preschooler, needs the money just for baseline needs. That includes housing, food, child care, and transportation. The latter is only bus and public transit costs.

"Housing and child care costs, absolutely, those are the things that have been driving the shift in every county that we've looked at where the gap has increased," said Lisa Mikesell, who was part of the study.

She noted that it was more expensive on the Eastside, where basic services cost $94,000 a year in places like Bellevue, Redmond and Mercer Island.

[Blondebaerde]

Originally Posted by Haakon

How much does it take? Quite a bit even for the bare minimum
http://selfsufficiencystandard.org/s...WA2017_SSS.pdf go to page 10.
It costs more on the eastside than in Seattle.

king5.com | UW study: Seattle cost of living over $75,000

Huzzah! Data!

Data always adds tons to the discussion. That was an interesting read; without rehashing the whole thing they described what was measured and how (list of assumptions) like any good journal should that is fit for public consumption. Also, a recent publication, which is important here because real estate and rental housing costs in-particular are changing (growing) rapidly.

Cherry picking one bulleted conclusion:

• The 2017 Self-Sufficiency Standard for Seattle is more expensive than most major cities. The
  Self-Sufficiency Standard for one adult, one preschooler, and one school-age child in Seattle ($33.37
  per hour) is most comparable to Chicago (North Side) ($31.43 per hour).

"Wage Adequacy," with detailed "what-if" scenarios behind it! Well-prepped, University of Washington. I think most Working Class / average to lower income people arriving here (C-D or anywhere else) asking about "can I" could benefit from using that as a baseline. They seem to cover the whole state.

OTOH: As I wrote earlier, the $100K-plus thing increases options for individuals and families. Like living in a better home or area, better vehicles, vacation options, *more savings for retirement*, etc. You can get by with less, the above describes it rather carefully! I've always been a fan of "don't get mad, get even" so did what what it took to live Eastside...eventually. Took 20 years of working, though.

PS: Reading the study above I'm concluding "don't have children if you are making Working Class wages, unless you want to remain mired in wage (in)adequacy!" Sad but true, IMO.

[Hemlock140]

For a family of 4 in King and Snohomish counties, $72,000 is considered low income. Generally low income is 50% of the median income. In Seattle that is now $133,000 for a married couple, so low income would be $66,500. There are still apartments available in the $1,600 range, but they go quickly, and landlords can be picky about who they rent to with so many applicants.


king5.com | $72,000 considered 'low income' in King, Snohomish counties for family of four

[Neerwhal]

Originally Posted by Blondebaerde

"Is it worth it." For who? In terms of real estate investments, it's been wildly profitable if you got in early enough, which in my view ended perhaps as late as 2011. After that, depends on how bad you need to be here. Last I checked, population continues to grow though one might wonder if it reaches SF levels if that will level and reverse. Even tech salaries won't be enough at that point.

I wouldn't have a household income less than $225K to raise children and a keep a home properly in some non-ghetto part of town, in the typical American Dream fashion so to speak. That being upper middle class these days. I understand that YMMV, and it's a precarious existence if both work, and one partner loses their job for a year or so, with a big mortgage of $3-5K.

Yes, you do need to visit before moving here, though I only visited twice for a total of maybe a week come to think of it so can't throw too many virtual stones at the idea. I'd hang around this forum, read a few hundred posts on various "typical" topics. Wish it existed back when I turned up, though that was now officially a "generation" ago thus has zero to do with today's realities since things have changed so much.

This is very exaggerated.

You can definitely live in a nice place without $225 annually.

Not fancy, but not a ghetto at all. I mean think about it. Do you really think a family of one analyst and one teacher are living in a ghetto? But that is "only" $150-$180k. And then there are plenty of people in Bellevue living on a single.salary of one software engineer at "only" $100-$150k. We don't have ghettos full of mechanical engineers, professors, and accountants. These individuals may not fly to France every spring but they live in nice places and have nice lives.

The median household income in our city per capita is $41k. For a family of four, $120k gets you a sport per kid, a vacation with family, a tidy little rambler or condo with room for a kitchen garden, maybe music or language lessons for the kids. We have a family of six. With around $225 we have an international vacation every few years and trips in North America every year, kids have nearly unlimited camps, lessons, and activities. We save for college and retirement. We have a home with a spare place to sleep and a room.for each person and a big yard.

If we were not a blended family we could easily make it on far less because we'd be living in a much smaller place with only two kids. Fewer lessons, fewer trips... Etc.

. And we eat out, never hesitate to buy an avocado, can afford new clothes and nice haircuts. $225 is not rich but it is well off.

It is true that what is middle class in some places is scraping by here but Seattle is still a town where a teacher can hold their head high.