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I'm sorry, but I'm going to need a citation here. More than likely what you "heard" was normal jabber around Amazon's HQ2 which is *not* them leaving at all.
Amazon won't leave, at least not soon. They have way too much invested here. And if they did leave (and pull out 8k jobs) they'd be shooting themselves in the foot since they own most of the buildings they're in (meaning those would lose value).
Amazon workers are here, the company isn't going anywhere. At least not quickly, if they did migrate to another HQ it would be over like 20 years.
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Originally Posted by DevanXL
Exactly! This is just how large firms negotiate. Amazon would be doing themselves a huge disservice by moving operations out of the city so abruptly. Honestly after articles like these it makes me think that the city really needs to focus of diversifying it's economy. Relying too much on one business or one industry spells for bad news. The city needs to invest hard on growth in new up and coming industries.
I disagree.. The city council wants more than $75 million. Sawant says AMazon can afford 4 times what they are proposing and wants it to be higher. As well, Bezos has way more muscle than any of you can imagine.. WHo says anything about him abandoning Seattle, altogether? Rather, he will move the core of his operations to a new area and migrate the headquarters to another city in small parts. However, being a very lightweight and fast-moving IT company that Amazon is, it will be much quicker than you could imagine!! Amazon is at the forefront of innovation. The least of Amazon's concern is losing money on real estate, especially in this market! Although, Amazon is partially responsible for the boom in the real estate prices.
As far as the employees setting their roots here, that is hogwash! Seattle is already a very transient city and most IT workers and these companies have such cumbersome lives that moving to a place that is more affordable and yet can make almost an equal salary may result in a surplus of new recruits and employees, rather than a deficit. Seattle is already becoming less and less desirable because of how expensive it is to live in the city and the city is now imposing more and more taxes. A majority of the people at Amazon are not rooted in Seattle and software people (especially younger generation) relocate frequently in this market. Amazon also is not a long-term type of company. Most people start their careers working at Amazon or get their feet wet in Seattle working at Amazon and then move onto other companies ,as the workload at Amazon is atrocious and the pay is usually less than other companies for same amount of work.
Amazon already has most of its distribution centers for its e-commerce stores located in other cities which are much cheaper than Seattle. I highly doubt that many of Amazon's warehouses are located in Seattle or even Washington state. As well, how hard is it to move server farms? WHo says they have to move them at all? They can probably rent out and sell off a lot of the property and equipment they have here. Opening up a software shop and server farms in other locations is very simple. It's not like Boeing where they will have to build new airport terminal and large hangars for building aircraft. Obviously, a company pushing out cars will have a tougher time setting up a new manufacturing facility. However, Amazon's core money is internet and software based. IT companies are much more flexible than almost any other industry in their ability to relocate and set up new operations quickly.
As well, I always thought HQ2 was somewhat of a stunt for Amazon to actually relocate out of Seattle. What companies have an HQ2 in the same country? It is a bit absurd. Does Microsoft, Google, Apple or Facebook have one? Nope! They have other campuses, but none are considered a second headquarters. To be honest, Canada has a lot of strategic advantages. To be honest, Amazon already is starting the process of migrating out of Seattle. All the property it invested in is small potatoes, especially if you consider how the Seattle City Council has plans to extort and suck as much out of the company as it can.
Think about it, almost every other city in this country is begging and pleading with Amazon to come and the city of Seattle is telling Jeff Bezos to get on his hands and knees and beg to stay. This is hardly complicated and Bezos is not flexing muscle, he is taking action.
The paper tiger here is not Amazon and Jeff Bezos. Nope! The real paper tiger is the Seattle City Council whose only skill is extorting money from the successful businesses who pay their salaries. The homeless people, unskilled hipsters, artists, antifa people, commies may give the city its culture and color, as well as the ones who vote in the politicians; but, they are not the ones who are contributing to the city's prosperity, paying for its roads and infrastructure, as well as the salaries of the council members. Don't forget the Seattle City Council is requiring a 5% Administration Fee for all the money extorted from these businesses! And where do you think that administration fee goes? Kshama has some nice travel plans.. Not easy being a commie running a city funded by capitalists! They need nice paid vacations too..
Last edited by RotseCherut; 05-02-2018 at 04:10 PM..
Let's be clear; Amazon has said it's going to halt further development of ONE of the towers now under construction. It's an unusual but not unprecedented move to threaten the city to do something, or keep from doing something, that Amazon doesn't like.
They're not about to abandon their multi-billion dollar investment in Seattle over this silly tax the city council is floating. Amazon has always played hardball with its Seattle real estate activities; ask the poor schnooks at PacMed about Amazon's occupancy of the old hospital on Beacon Hill, before they colonized SLU.
Amazon knows that any reduction of their workforce in Seattle (as opposed to slowing the growth rate) would cost them far, far more then the money the tax might cost; the value of their vast real estate holdings and leases would plummet because there wouldn't be anybody new to occupy the space.
The city council knows this too, although their approach to "solving" the housing cost crisis is about as backward as you can get, as the funds raised would only serve to increase the total housing stock, adding further to congestion and to the cost inflation in the construction industry that we're already seeing.
But Amazon is fighting this one out in the media; if it were to move to the courts the city would probably lose as there are serious state constitutional issues with the proposed "head" tax.
Let's be clear; Amazon has said it's going to halt further development of ONE of the towers now under construction. It's an unusual but not unprecedented move to threaten the city to do something, or keep from doing something, that Amazon doesn't like.
They're not about to abandon their multi-billion dollar investment in Seattle over this silly tax the city council is floating. Amazon has always played hardball with its Seattle real estate activities; ask the poor schnooks at PacMed about Amazon's occupancy of the old hospital on Beacon Hill, before they colonized SLU.
Amazon knows that any reduction of their workforce in Seattle (as opposed to slowing the growth rate) would cost them far, far more then the money the tax might cost; the value of their vast real estate holdings and leases would plummet because there wouldn't be anybody new to occupy the space.
The city council knows this too, although their approach to "solving" the housing cost crisis is about as backward as you can get, as the funds raised would only serve to increase the total housing stock, adding further to congestion and to the cost inflation in the construction industry that we're already seeing.
But Amazon is fighting this one out in the media; if it were to move to the courts the city would probably lose as there are serious state constitutional issues with the proposed "head" tax.
Bingo! This is all just hardball. They serve to lose far more than they gain from moving out of the city. Don't they occupy like 20% of the office space in Seattle? If they ever move it would be very slow and gradual making sure that other tech businesses move into their space to keep the value high.
Amazon's not moving. They may slow local growth, and they may threaten. And over the course of many yeas, they might decide to bail. But now? Nah. We hear a lot of BS on the internet. Some of which turns out to be true.
Agree with Ira, just don't see it happening. Amazon is too vested here, the employees love living here too and are very settled into their homes and lives. I do think this tactic will be a win for Amazon, Durkan is not stupid.
I find it hilarious that people think Amazon is not moving, when they actually are. HQ2 is Amazon's way of slowly migrating out of the Seattle area and is an insurance policy. Basically, if the Seattle City Council and Washington state government makes Amazon's life too difficult, they simply migrate their core operations to another city where they are appreciated and don't have to spend an exorbitant amount on taxes. People think that these taxes are insignificant to Amazon, but that is hardly the case. IT will reflect on the salaries of the workers and Amazon will base the core of its operations where it can pay its workers the least amount of money and yet offer them the best lifestyle. In Seattle, they already pay very high salaries to their workers and the lifestyle is becoming worse and worse. Don't be fooled by the high salaries though, as you end up working so many extra hours , that you could literally work two jobs and make even more money and not work much more hours. Now, taxing Amazon even more so they can house all the freeloaders and redistribute all the wealth will make those skilled professionals look to work at other locations or other companies. THis is business economics.
As far as all the real estate, there are plenty of cities bending backwards to give Amazon the cheapest real estate imaginable. Amazon is not like other companies and the real estate its invested in is actually small potatoes compared to other companies who would pay considerably more to build large factories and manufacturing type plants and cannot easily relocate such operations. Real estate can be bought and sold, but skilled IT professionals are not expendable and go where the paychecks are offered.
As I said, Amazon will not abandon Seattle, but it will move its headquarters to a new location which will result in a massive loss of tax revenue for the state of Washington and city of Seattle. Amazon also has a fleet of the best lawyers in the world and top notch business managers. THey could also redistribute their more skilled higher paid professionals to other locations and use Seattle as its base for internships, entry level IT people and other lower paid workers. The city of SEattle is playing with fire, but they feel they are impervious to any repercussions as many of the other posters think on this thread.
There is another component here people are not aware about. In fact, Amazon has significant operations in India and other developing countries and utilizing cheaper labor without all the regulations and taxes that they would incur in the USA. There are probably more Amazon employees in places like India than even in the USA. Most of the skilled IT professionals are in the USA, but Seattle is becoming less and less a desirable place to work and everyone loathes an Amazon job in Seattle ,because of the ruthless work environment and rigorous hours. Even without the Seattle City Council's blitzkrieg against Amazon, it would make sense for Amazon to consider relocating its operations to another place, based on how it operates.
I'm not a big fan of Amazon and don't want to work there. However, I respect capitalism and respect how much of an influence on Seattle's economy Amazon has. And, I know that attacking, mocking and denigrating the company that helps feed and clothe your city is very bad. Think about how much other cities are fighting for Amazon, while Seattle is constantly trying to punish them?
Seattle is screwed and Amazon already is leaving.. People are totally being misled to think Amazon is actually establishing an HQ2, when, in fact, it is slowly migrating its new US headquarters to another city.
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Originally Posted by homesinseattle
Agree with Ira, just don't see it happening. Amazon is too vested here, the employees love living here too and are very settled into their homes and lives. I do think this tactic will be a win for Amazon, Durkan is not stupid.
Oh really? And, how many Amazon employees do you know? Because , most people I know who work at Amazon utterly hate the environment. It is cutthroat, ruthless and the hours are unnerving and the pay is not much higher than other IT companies in the area. However, the jobs are much more plentiful and they do offer some high paid positions for certain types of senior developers. However, to say that Amazon employees love their lives in Seattle and are very settled is completely ludicrous! In fact, Amazon has one of the highest turnover rates of any IT company. As well, most people who work at Amazon only use it as a stepping stone to work at other IT companies. I have Amazon recruiters coming after me all the time for some of their top jobs. Even with some of the very lucrative looking positions, I still have no desire to work there. I know if I worked at Amazon as a software developer, I would not want it to be permanent! I'd only do so if I am starving and couldn't get work anywhere else.
Amazon has an annual revenue of over $177 billion in 2017.. From what I have read, Amazon has invested a total of $4 billion in Seattle property. That is not a significant property investment for a company that is able to bring in so much revenue. If Jeff Bezos abandoned Seattle altogether and just gave away his property to the homeless, that means their revenue would only be $4 billion less. THe previous year in 2016 their revenue was $136 billion. Even if they abandoned all their property in Seattle, they would still be raking in a massive profit compared to last year. As I said, Amazon's property investment is small potatoes. Certain companies, like General Motors or Boeing may have amuch harder time relinquishing property and their property is a significant part of their overhead. That is not the case with an IT/E-Commerce company such as Amazon. Sure, the city of Seattle wants $40,000,000 or $50,000,000 from him this time around. But, he knows that they will keep coming after him for more and more and $50,000,000 will become $1 billion soon enough. As well, Amazon workers are starting to be priced out as the company grows and need to hire more and more people. It makes sense for him to relocate to a city where the government appreciates what he brings rather than one where they are hostile to him and want to extort as much extra tax money as they can. Bezos is Liberatarian minded and can also see well into the future, that this "Head Tax" is only the beginning. Kshama Sawant is screaming bloody murder at her fellow city council members that they will not be taxing Amazon $200,000,000. She claims the Head Tax is way too small and there are others who agree with her.
Then, there is the case of cities all over the country begging and bribing them to come.. Some cities are even offering them free office space , because they know how much money they will bring into the cities.
Last edited by RotseCherut; 05-02-2018 at 09:52 PM..
Amazon is not going to get pushed around by little Seattle. Cities across the world would bow down to them. It was a forgone conclusion that this nutty city would lose Amazon.
I also agree that this sounds a bit sensationalist and there is a pretty big gap between "Amazon stops work on one of its buildings" and "Amazon is leaving Seattle", "Seattle economy is doomed", etc.. With all this HQ2 talk it sounds more like Amazon is diversifying, and perhaps even going to stop growing Seattle presence in favor of HQ2. It's not the same as "leaving" and "economic meltdown", it just means slower growth for Seattle. And I am personally happy with this news, Amazon is not known for terrific working conditions and I would much rather prefer to have other companies fill in this space.
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Kshama has some nice travel plans.. Not easy being a commie running a city funded by capitalists! They need nice paid vacations too..
Amazon halts Seattle construction amid head tax proposal
