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Old 03-24-2019, 01:39 PM
 
21,989 posts, read 15,671,227 times
Reputation: 12943

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
I worked for 5 years in drug rehab in country with zero drug tolerance policy. MOF, drug use was criminal offense. You had 2 options. 2 years in jail or 60 days rehab, then 6 years in jail after strike 2.
So here I am telling you how it works in the REAL life, as junkies are same across the world.

They DO NOT want to be treated and get off their addiction. In years I have not witnessed a single one but many that kept returning or simply kicked the bucket. Maybe there are those that hit the bottom so bad that they actually chose to stop but, until one chooses so and is firm - no islands or programs will work.
So if you hope that you will offer them another expensive treatment program, good luck. One that wants to sober up, WILL find what is readily available. One that does not - will spend some time in nice sanatorium, with same of the kind, and return back to his addiction as soon as he hits the life.
As life is full of offering them just that - freedoms of doing whatever is their pleasure, protected by "human rights". The entire culture here is constantly propagating drug and alcohol. Literally, watch any movie or show or listen to music.

So what exactly do you expect?
Yes they interviewed multiple people in Rhode Island and found overwhelming success. IMO it's worth it to turn most of them into working tax paying citizens. They said 93% continue with the maintenance program after getting out. Is anyone investigating turning McNeil Island into a drug treatment facility?

Last edited by Seacove; 03-24-2019 at 01:52 PM..
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Old 03-24-2019, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Metro Seattle Area - Born and Raised
4,856 posts, read 2,021,681 times
Reputation: 8575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seacove View Post
Is there any reason we cannot turn McNeil Island into a drug treatment facility?

It's a pretty "socialist" solution but given that right wingers are loving the opportunity to take shots at Seattle, one would assume they support the proposal.
So what's your answer to this crisis... Or what do you think will work here in Seattle?

So what is it? Something or simly nothing?

Nobody is taking shots at Seattle since we're far beyond that now. And simply saying its a Right Winger or a Far Leftist problem now is not being honest with the situation we're now in.

Not trying to be a smart @zz, but how would a SJW handle this problem? To keep it real, no "universal income" or "free unlimited housing" is available, so what's the answer?
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Old 03-24-2019, 07:17 PM
 
Location: Edmonds, WA
8,975 posts, read 10,162,712 times
Reputation: 14247
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
I worked for 5 years in drug rehab in country with zero drug tolerance policy. MOF, drug use was criminal offense. You had 2 options. 2 years in jail or 60 days rehab, then 6 years in jail after strike 2.
So here I am telling you how it works in the REAL life, as junkies are same across the world.

They DO NOT want to be treated and get off their addiction. In years I have not witnessed a single one but many that kept returning or simply kicked the bucket. Maybe there are those that hit the bottom so bad that they actually chose to stop but, until one chooses so and is firm - no islands or programs will work.
So if you hope that you will offer them another expensive treatment program, good luck. One that wants to sober up, WILL find what is readily available. One that does not - will spend some time in nice sanatorium, with same of the kind, and return back to his addiction as soon as he hits the life.
As life is full of offering them just that - freedoms of doing whatever is their pleasure, protected by "human rights". The entire culture here is constantly propagating drug and alcohol. Literally, watch any movie or show or listen to music.

So what exactly do you expect?
I’m sure you’ve watched Intervention. In every episode there are usually one or two family members or friends who are enablers. Giving the addict money for booze or drugs, letting them live rent-free so they have a place to feed their addiction, etc. Normally they are well-intentioned, but are either heavily manipulated and/or protective of the addict and see enabling as the best option. But in reality, they are only helping the addict continue to destroy him/herself. They are part of the problem.

If an addict is on the street, then that usually means they’ve run out of enablers. At that point, the city itself is an enabler, by allowing them to freely feed their addiction. So the city too is part of the problem.

Before any change can happen, we need to recognize that the homelessness policies are in fact contributing to the problem. They are enabling addicts to continue to destroy themselves and in many cases, harm others.
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Old 03-24-2019, 07:21 PM
 
21,989 posts, read 15,671,227 times
Reputation: 12943
Quote:
Originally Posted by bergun View Post
So what's your answer to this crisis... Or what do you think will work here in Seattle?

So what is it? Something or simly nothing?

Nobody is taking shots at Seattle since we're far beyond that now. And simply saying its a Right Winger or a Far Leftist problem now is not being honest with the situation we're now in.

Not trying to be a smart @zz, but how would a SJW handle this problem? To keep it real, no "universal income" or "free unlimited housing" is available, so what's the answer?
The video suggests using McNeil Island as a drug treatment/incarceration center. They compare the treatment that is working in Rhode Island that also requires one of three medications for life (the socialism part) but the success rate of them staying on the program so far is 93%. Certainly sounds better than paying to house them while they continue to die from overdoses. Why does it matter to someone moving to the South anyway?
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Old 03-24-2019, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Rochester, WA
14,416 posts, read 11,959,919 times
Reputation: 38811
One thing I know for sure from seeing the investigative reports from Olympia (https://www.facebook.com/Olympia-Pho...5912262772302/) and that is FREE NEEDLES ARE A BAD IDEA.

They end up out in the woods, left in parks, public places, in abandoned camps. Not just one of them... 50 or 100 of them. Awful.

These are a far bigger health menace, imho, than addicts sharing or re-using needles amongst themselves. Innocent people have to clean these up. Or fear stepping on them in parks.



Click for picture:


https://www.facebook.com/24591226277...type=3&theater
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Old 03-24-2019, 08:51 PM
 
Location: Lyon, France, Whidbey Island WA
20,834 posts, read 17,045,216 times
Reputation: 11534
I work every day with people who are either dependent upon alcohol or other drugs, are homeless or near homeless, and struggle to make ends meet on the payments they get from government. To a person they are anxious, stressed by their situations and their medical problems. And, they are consumed with the desire to get the substances they use. Their lives revolve around the "getting" of the substance, and they organize their lives around successfully getting it. To a smaller extent its like people who are dependent upon nicotine in cigarettes. However, the substances they use are illegal and can be deadly. They also deeply affect the person's ability to have the judgment necessary to functioning in life.

They have failed, and we must come to terms with that definition in order to help. I favor mandatory treatment for substances removal of driving license for those who drive a vehicle while impaired and incarceration if the person violates the terms of their supervision agreement. Those of us who do our best in life must not be encumbered by people who have failed, however we do have an opportunity to help in a way which recognizes where the person is starting and hold clear and reasonable goals in front of them. If they fail and fail again they should be removed from the rest of us in our daily lives.
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Old 03-24-2019, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Metro Seattle Area - Born and Raised
4,856 posts, read 2,021,681 times
Reputation: 8575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seacove View Post
The video suggests using McNeil Island as a drug treatment/incarceration center. They compare the treatment that is working in Rhode Island that also requires one of three medications for life (the socialism part) but the success rate of them staying on the program so far is 93%. Certainly sounds better than paying to house them while they continue to die from overdoses. Why does it matter to someone moving to the South anyway?
Because this is were I was born, raised, enlisted into the Army, buried my mother, have two daughters and three grandchildren still here.

Seattle will always be my home regardless where I choose to live.
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Old 03-24-2019, 09:54 PM
 
21,989 posts, read 15,671,227 times
Reputation: 12943
Quote:
Originally Posted by AADAD View Post
I work every day with people who are either dependent upon alcohol or other drugs, are homeless or near homeless, and struggle to make ends meet on the payments they get from government. To a person they are anxious, stressed by their situations and their medical problems. And, they are consumed with the desire to get the substances they use. Their lives revolve around the "getting" of the substance, and they organize their lives around successfully getting it. To a smaller extent its like people who are dependent upon nicotine in cigarettes. However, the substances they use are illegal and can be deadly. They also deeply affect the person's ability to have the judgment necessary to functioning in life.

They have failed, and we must come to terms with that definition in order to help. I favor mandatory treatment for substances removal of driving license for those who drive a vehicle while impaired and incarceration if the person violates the terms of their supervision agreement. Those of us who do our best in life must not be encumbered by people who have failed, however we do have an opportunity to help in a way which recognizes where the person is starting and hold clear and reasonable goals in front of them. If they fail and fail again they should be removed from the rest of us in our daily lives.
That's why the program mentioned in the video is appealing. Start taking them to McNeil Island and giving them a choice between treatment and incarceration. As long as they are dealing with an addiction so great they are stealing, there really are no other options.
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Old 03-25-2019, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Lyon, France, Whidbey Island WA
20,834 posts, read 17,045,216 times
Reputation: 11534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seacove View Post
That's why the program mentioned in the video is appealing. Start taking them to McNeil Island and giving them a choice between treatment and incarceration. As long as they are dealing with an addiction so great they are stealing, there really are no other options.
Its a first. We agree.
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Alamogordo, NM
7,940 posts, read 9,455,120 times
Reputation: 5695
The McNeil Island idea is the supreme idea. They're literally (the addicted ones) out of their mind. The Seattle City Council isn't much smarter than them, though. What a bunch of idiots.
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