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Old 11-06-2019, 04:06 PM
 
792 posts, read 748,253 times
Reputation: 1073

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Looks like there's already a call to arms over the likeliness of the initiative passing...

https://komonews.com/news/local/king...tab-initiative
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Old 11-06-2019, 07:43 PM
 
234 posts, read 110,718 times
Reputation: 275
why it passed get over it the people are fed up
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Old 11-07-2019, 04:51 PM
Status: "pray for democracy and freedom everlasting" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
4,889 posts, read 875,472 times
Reputation: 1653
I heard the Pierce County exec interviewed today. He said it passed 67% in Pierce Cty and 62% in Snohomish--both in the ST district. He thought there is a chance that it could be over 50% within the borders of ST, which itself, from what I understand, was ridiculously gerrymandered to maximize pro-transit voters.

What I don't get is that voters passed ST3 54-45% in 2018, and now turn around and (possibly) vote for 976 to defund it.

In fairness to Pierce, they did vote no on ST3, but were dragged into it nonetheless by King and Sno.
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Old 11-08-2019, 02:26 AM
 
Location: Metro Seattle Area - Born and Raised
874 posts, read 331,985 times
Reputation: 2028
They sold the ST3 ideal as one thing, but delivered something totally different.

The reality of the situation is that many people work in Seattle, but cannot afford to live in Seattle, so they... We are semi-forced to live in areas in King, Pierce and Snohomish counties that do not have the greatest public transportation system or due to hours/conditions/terms/availability of our jobs, have drive our own cars to work.

What I mean by semi-forced to live outside of Seattle, it breaks down to economics... Either to buy a newer 3-4 bedroom single family home or use that same mortgage money to pay rent on a 2 bedroom, with a single parking slot. I chose to buy a house. I was born and raised in the Rainier Valley area of Seattle. The small house I grew up in, 1000 SF, sold for more than my newly build 2900+ SF house with a large two car garage.

I know that many people living in Seattle cannot understand why most of the State voted "yes" on Prop 976 and I can understand that. With that understanding, I, like everybody else here, will vote on policies/laws that benefit our own individual needs the best... Which is nothing more than human nature.

In the last few years, "Seattle," by a large percentage, voted in favor on several changes in laws that were approved AND affected the rest of the State of Washington. And those changes did not benefit areas outside of the Metro Seattle/Tacoma areas. I own a wood stocked Ruger 10/22 semi-automatic rifle, a 10 shot, .22 caliber "plinking" rifle, which is now considered an "Assault Rifle." My wood stock Ruger Mini-14 semi-automatic, a 5 shot .223 caliber ranch rifle is now also an "Assault Rifle" as well. The voters in Eastern Washington, as well as Southwestern and Northwestern were not too happy that those laws were passed and that they have to live by them now.

In those areas, most of the people were p!zzed off that those changes were passed... As much a many of the voters in Seattle are over the passing of Prop 976.

Since political compromising is no longer viewed as an option by both the Left and Right, people are now broken down into groups that benefit their interests, instead of the interests of the whole State.

Both sides, the Left and Right, have brought use to this point. To be honest, its going to take us all to understand that we need to return back to compromising on issues that affect us all.

I will admit that I voted "yes" on Prop 976, but honestly, I'm against $30 vehicle registrations since "WE" do "NEED" to pay taxes... Period!! But!! not at the rates DEMANDED by ST3. If they taxed people at say 40% of the current registration fees, many people, like myself, would have voted "no," but since compromising was off the table for ST3, I had no choice but to vote "yes."

I mother didn't drive and solely depended on public transportation and I know that we need a functioning public transportation system, but the taxation needs to be fair and spread across to everybody in a fair manner that involves us all in investing in the State's infrastructure.

"I" believe that it will not be overturned in any of the State Courts since the will of the voting population in the ENTIRE State of Washington was clearly against this AND regardless of what you think, the will of the people needs to be respected... In a functioning democracy. I'm not crazy about three of the new gun restriction/control laws that were passed in the last few years, but I accepted them and respected the will of the people.

Now, if something is presented in the near future to help fund transportation and road projects... That is reasonable... 40%-45% of what I'm currently paying every year, "I" would be OK with it.

My ex-wife, who is still a good friend, supported and voted for ST3, but wasn't too happy with paying several hundreds of dollars, $450+, for her 2015 Subaru every year since the passage. This time around, she voted "yes" and she still lives inside of Seattle.
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Old 11-08-2019, 09:30 AM
 
18,650 posts, read 11,557,456 times
Reputation: 9849
Quote:
Originally Posted by bergun View Post
They sold the ST3 ideal as one thing, but delivered something totally different.

The reality of the situation is that many people work in Seattle, but cannot afford to live in Seattle, so they... We are semi-forced to live in areas in King, Pierce and Snohomish counties that do not have the greatest public transportation system or due to hours/conditions/terms/availability of our jobs, have drive our own cars to work.

What I mean by semi-forced to live outside of Seattle, it breaks down to economics... Either to buy a newer 3-4 bedroom single family home or use that same mortgage money to pay rent on a 2 bedroom, with a single parking slot. I chose to buy a house. I was born and raised in the Rainier Valley area of Seattle. The small house I grew up in, 1000 SF, sold for more than my newly build 2900+ SF house with a large two car garage.

I know that many people living in Seattle cannot understand why most of the State voted "yes" on Prop 976 and I can understand that. With that understanding, I, like everybody else here, will vote on policies/laws that benefit our own individual needs the best... Which is nothing more than human nature.

In the last few years, "Seattle," by a large percentage, voted in favor on several changes in laws that were approved AND affected the rest of the State of Washington. And those changes did not benefit areas outside of the Metro Seattle/Tacoma areas. I own a wood stocked Ruger 10/22 semi-automatic rifle, a 10 shot, .22 caliber "plinking" rifle, which is now considered an "Assault Rifle." My wood stock Ruger Mini-14 semi-automatic, a 5 shot .223 caliber ranch rifle is now also an "Assault Rifle" as well. The voters in Eastern Washington, as well as Southwestern and Northwestern were not too happy that those laws were passed and that they have to live by them now.

In those areas, most of the people were p!zzed off that those changes were passed... As much a many of the voters in Seattle are over the passing of Prop 976.

Since political compromising is no longer viewed as an option by both the Left and Right, people are now broken down into groups that benefit their interests, instead of the interests of the whole State.

Both sides, the Left and Right, have brought use to this point. To be honest, its going to take us all to understand that we need to return back to compromising on issues that affect us all.

I will admit that I voted "yes" on Prop 976, but honestly, I'm against $30 vehicle registrations since "WE" do "NEED" to pay taxes... Period!! But!! not at the rates DEMANDED by ST3. If they taxed people at say 40% of the current registration fees, many people, like myself, would have voted "no," but since compromising was off the table for ST3, I had no choice but to vote "yes."

I mother didn't drive and solely depended on public transportation and I know that we need a functioning public transportation system, but the taxation needs to be fair and spread across to everybody in a fair manner that involves us all in investing in the State's infrastructure.

"I" believe that it will not be overturned in any of the State Courts since the will of the voting population in the ENTIRE State of Washington was clearly against this AND regardless of what you think, the will of the people needs to be respected... In a functioning democracy. I'm not crazy about three of the new gun restriction/control laws that were passed in the last few years, but I accepted them and respected the will of the people.

Now, if something is presented in the near future to help fund transportation and road projects... That is reasonable... 40%-45% of what I'm currently paying every year, "I" would be OK with it.

My ex-wife, who is still a good friend, supported and voted for ST3, but wasn't too happy with paying several hundreds of dollars, $450+, for her 2015 Subaru every year since the passage. This time around, she voted "yes" and she still lives inside of Seattle.
And I hope public transportation for those outside Seattle proper is reduced to the point of punishment. Let them all drive single cars and bring the already terrible traffic to a halt. They deserve it. If the metro votes for ST3, it’s none of the rest of the state’s business. At this point, they deserve to pay the price and in time and I hope that price becomes unbearable. Yes, we no longer compromise and guns were brought up multiple times in a transportation post. Ridiculous. But it’s where we are and since public transportation benefits EVERYONE, it’s those outside Seattle who did this who should lose hours of their life everyday inching along in a car after getting up at 4 or 5 in the morning in a desperate attempt to beat the traffic.

Last edited by Seacove; 11-08-2019 at 09:41 AM..
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Old 11-08-2019, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Metro Seattle Area - Born and Raised
874 posts, read 331,985 times
Reputation: 2028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seacove View Post
And I hope public transportation for those outside Seattle proper is reduced to the point of punishment. Let them all drive single cars and bring the already terrible traffic to a halt. They deserve it. If the metro votes for ST3, it’s none of the rest of the state’s business. At this point, they deserve to pay the price and in time and I hope that price becomes unbearable. Yes, we no longer compromise and guns were brought up multiple times in a transportation post. Ridiculous. But it’s where we are and since public transportation benefits EVERYONE, it’s those outside Seattle who did this who should lose hours of their life everyday inching along in a car after getting up at 4 or 5 in the morning in a desperate attempt to beat the traffic.
OK Seacove, then I hope everybody living inside Seattle will loose most of their bus services and for the limited routes that are still operating, I hope the that the bus/train fares are increased by 200%... And I then hope that everybody living inside of Seattle's city limits, who depends on public transportation, loose hours of their lives while waiting for a bus or train, that might or might not show up. And that they too will have to wake up several hours earlier and hope that there is a seat or even standing standing space on that bus or train in order to get to work.

This is beyond childish and proof that compromises are no long possible in the State of Washington.

Again, this is why I voted yes.
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Old 11-08-2019, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Seattle
1,575 posts, read 1,378,289 times
Reputation: 3797
Quote:
Originally Posted by bergun View Post
They sold the ST3 ideal as one thing, but delivered something totally different.

The reality of the situation is that many people work in Seattle, but cannot afford to live in Seattle, so they... We are semi-forced to live in areas in King, Pierce and Snohomish counties that do not have the greatest public transportation system or due to hours/conditions/terms/availability of our jobs, have drive our own cars to work.

(snip)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seacove View Post
And I hope public transportation for those outside Seattle proper is reduced to the point of punishment. Let them all drive single cars and bring the already terrible traffic to a halt. They deserve it. If the metro votes for ST3, it’s none of the rest of the state’s business. At this point, they deserve to pay the price and in time and I hope that price becomes unbearable. Yes, we no longer compromise and guns were brought up multiple times in a transportation post. Ridiculous. But it’s where we are and since public transportation benefits EVERYONE, it’s those outside Seattle who did this who should lose hours of their life everyday inching along in a car after getting up at 4 or 5 in the morning in a desperate attempt to beat the traffic.

(snip)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bergun View Post
OK Seacove, then I hope everybody living inside Seattle will loose most of their bus services and for the limited routes that are still operating, I hope the that the bus/train fares are increased by 200%... And I then hope that everybody living inside of Seattle's city limits, who depends on public transportation, loose hours of their lives while waiting for a bus or train, that might or might not show up. And that they too will have to wake up several hours earlier and hope that there is a seat or even standing standing space on that bus or train in order to get to work.

(snip)
Note the snips are just to save space.

My own view is that these issues - guns, public transit, taxation - are all incredibly complicated, with pros and cons and winners and losers on all sides. For good reason, most voters aren't fluent with all the mechanisms and processes that go into making these policies, or the social or economic trends which justify (or fail to justify) them, which makes for two unhappy possible outcomes.

1. The supporters of things like ST3 exploit that ignorance (that's the word) to make unsupportable claims and undeliverable promises, knowing that Joe or Jane Voter is unlikely to know what's possible vs. what's BS.

2. People like Eyman exploit that ignorance to set up equally impractical "anti-" positions, and use the same referendum mechanism to defeat the intent of previous referenda or ballot measures.

How many voters for ST3 knew what the actual cost would be once all the overruns and re-designs are done, or how much taxpayers would be spending IN ADDITION to the debt service on the bonds, to subsidize every single ride on the light rail system - forever? How many people voting for 976 have elderly relatives who won't get decent handicapped transit services?

I suppose the ultimate version of this is Brexit, where millions of Britons voted on a simple question with immense, complicated, far-reaching consequences that neither the pro- nor the anti-Brexit forces articulated before the vote (because, in most cases, they were ignorant themselves.)

A referendum is a dangerous thing. If we don't want to spend the effort to educate our kids on how their governments work (and trust me, we don't) then we're going to pay the price with half-baked ideas getting voted on by millions of people that don't know what they're asking for, or with lobbyists and self-serving parties trying to bamboozle the public with half-truths or rosy projections of outcomes they know won't come true.
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Old 11-08-2019, 11:14 AM
 
18,650 posts, read 11,557,456 times
Reputation: 9849
Quote:
Originally Posted by bergun View Post
OK Seacove, then I hope everybody living inside Seattle will loose most of their bus services and for the limited routes that are still operating, I hope the that the bus/train fares are increased by 200%... And I then hope that everybody living inside of Seattle's city limits, who depends on public transportation, loose hours of their lives while waiting for a bus or train, that might or might not show up. And that they too will have to wake up several hours earlier and hope that there is a seat or even standing standing space on that bus or train in order to get to work.

This is beyond childish and proof that compromises are no long possible in the State of Washington.

Again, this is why I voted yes.
King County opposed the measure. That said, those within Seattle proper may be the ones using the buses the least or will be able to fund within the city most easily. We need to get down to the district level for transportation funding so we get very specific on who benefits. If my district supports and pays for public transportation funding, they should get more routes and better roads. For those districts who aren’t paying, they should lose routes, become a lower priority and bond with the slow slow creep at 6:00 am.

It is not surprising that central and eastern Washington voted for it, it’s why we should not be sending western Washington money to eastern Washington. But those, such as Pierce and Snohomish who voted for this - they should definitely have to live the results of their vote. They should lose routes, lose transportation funding and lose ferry service or have their ferry fares dramatically increased. That is extremely reasonable.
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Old 11-08-2019, 01:40 PM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, originally from SF Bay Area
30,848 posts, read 56,221,985 times
Reputation: 32842
I-976 would not be passing if not for the way Sound Transit valued our vehicles in the ST3 scam.



Pierce County votes are 67% in favor of 976 where the ST3 vote 3 years ago had failed but passed due to King and Snohomish County votes. This time Snohomish County voted in favor of 976 at 62%. Though it's losing in King County, 44% still voted for it here. I'm sure that if sound transit had used a fair valuation method 976 would have failed badly. I have an $800 bill for the registration on a nearly 3 year old truck to pay for transit that won't reach us, the closest planned is 6 miles from us and that not until 2041.
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Old 11-08-2019, 03:08 PM
 
Location: West Coast
1,453 posts, read 1,326,217 times
Reputation: 2635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seacove View Post
And I hope public transportation for those outside Seattle proper is reduced to the point of punishment. Let them all drive single cars and bring the already terrible traffic to a halt. They deserve it. If the metro votes for ST3, it’s none of the rest of the state’s business. At this point, they deserve to pay the price and in time and I hope that price becomes unbearable. Yes, we no longer compromise and guns were brought up multiple times in a transportation post. Ridiculous. But it’s where we are and since public transportation benefits EVERYONE, it’s those outside Seattle who did this who should lose hours of their life everyday inching along in a car after getting up at 4 or 5 in the morning in a desperate attempt to beat the traffic.
Seek professional help
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