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Old 11-09-2019, 09:41 PM
 
Location: WA Desert, Seattle native
6,179 posts, read 4,105,888 times
Reputation: 4644

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"We just need to make sure the cuts fall in the places that supported Prop 976."

And that would be illegal with a state proposition.

But, in the end, I tend to agree that transportation funding should be local. Hard to do, however. The State has authority in the end. BTW, there are two major projects that are going to be delayed in my area due to 976 passing. I say, so be it.

https://www.tri-cityherald.com/news/...237118534.html
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Old 11-09-2019, 09:46 PM
 
18,652 posts, read 11,560,789 times
Reputation: 9849
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwguy2 View Post
"We just need to make sure the cuts fall in the places that supported Prop 976."

And that would be illegal with a state proposition.

But, in the end, I tend to agree that transportation funding should be local. Hard to do, however. The State has authority in the end. BTW, there are two major projects that are going to be delayed in my area due to 976 passing. I say, so be it.

https://www.tri-cityherald.com/news/...237118534.html
And that's good. Those projects should be delayed or canceled, the voters canceled the funding. Look at this:

"The state committed $15 million to the $21 million effort to route Ridgeline Drive under Highway 395 near Southridge. The project will relieve congestion and bolster safety on the state highway."

and this:

"The long-planned project will re-route Lewis over the railroad tracks and out of an aging, dangerous tunnel. The state committed $26 million."

"Mayor Bob Thompson, who as of Tuesday has been re-elected twice after supporting the fees, said the loss leaves the city with a series of choices — allow roads to degrade, raise property taxes, cut or privatize other city services."

Because this:

"The Federal Highway Administration nixed the project this year, saying there isn’t enough traffic."

https://www.tri-cityherald.com/news/...237118534.html

I can guess where that money would have come from.

The rest of the state does not have King County's growth. King County should have the right to fund their transit projects. Pierce and Snohomish should have the right to vote themselves out of having to fund or receive transportation projects. I'm completely fine with taking this to the courts and if that means transportation becomes locally funded, then Prop 976 would be worth it.

Tri-Cities needs to fund themselves $41 million for those two projects alone and it looks like Richland and Prosser are going to be majorly in the hole too.

Last edited by Seacove; 11-09-2019 at 10:00 PM..
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Old 11-09-2019, 10:04 PM
 
Location: WA Desert, Seattle native
6,179 posts, read 4,105,888 times
Reputation: 4644
I get your point. The Ridgeline project occurs at a State Highway location. The Pasco project is entirely in the city of Pasco.

But I believe there does indeed need to be a more localized approach. Another example is the new Duportail Bridge, currently under construction in Richland. It has some State funding, but also local funding. There perhaps needs to be more of this joint funding, IMO.

But this is the Seattle forum, so I will cease on Tri-Cities posts for now.
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Old 11-09-2019, 10:08 PM
 
18,652 posts, read 11,560,789 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwguy2 View Post
I get your point. The Ridgeline project occurs at a State Highway location. The Pasco project is entirely in the city of Pasco.

But I believe there does indeed need to be a more localized approach. Another example is the new Duportail Bridge, currently under construction in Richland. It has some State funding, but also local funding. There perhaps needs to be more of this joint funding, IMO.
No, just local funding. Let Eastern Washington fund their roads and Western Washington, and Seattle specifically, fund theirs. I think both sides would agree that is reasonable and if Eastern Washington doesn't have the money, they could implement tolls. I go to Eastern Washington exactly never. I don't want to pay for their road projects. And if the truck that makes deliveries to Western Washington is charged a toll, that cost could be pro-rated to the items being delivered. Beyond that, it looks like Eastern Washington is going to see some property tax increases and reduced services. People are so short-sighted. A high car tab fee vs. income taxes or high property taxes? Easy choice for me but if Prop 976 supporters think they won't end up paying in other ways plus longer commute times, they are fooling themselves.
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Old 11-11-2019, 11:24 PM
509
 
3,298 posts, read 4,251,386 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seacove View Post
No, just local funding. Let Eastern Washington fund their roads and Western Washington, and Seattle specifically, fund theirs. I think both sides would agree that is reasonable and if Eastern Washington doesn't have the money, they could implement tolls. I go to Eastern Washington exactly never. I don't want to pay for their road projects. And if the truck that makes deliveries to Western Washington is charged a toll, that cost could be pro-rated to the items being delivered. Beyond that, it looks like Eastern Washington is going to see some property tax increases and reduced services. People are so short-sighted. A high car tab fee vs. income taxes or high property taxes? Easy choice for me but if Prop 976 supporters think they won't end up paying in other ways plus longer commute times, they are fooling themselves.
The last data available from about four years ago. Eastern Washington SENDS transportation dollars to western Washington.

I would support a toll on ALL the cross-Cascade highways of at least $20. I am willing to pay for my trips to Seattle and the mountain pass highways are EXPENSIVE to maintain period.

To save money, we can close all the passes with the exception of Satus Pass. There is no reason why people need to drive between eastern and western Washington during winter. After all, it is only for four months!!!

Oh, I did look up the impact of initiative on Chelan County roads...zero.

Does impact the urban areas in eastern Washington.

Maybe what we need is a local option gas tax. Give the counties and cities the right to tax gas and use it for local roads.
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Old 11-12-2019, 01:50 AM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
4,191 posts, read 2,408,919 times
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Wait am I getting this right, people in Washington are anti ferry? They are an extension of our state highways. Maybe we should start looking into building cross sound bridges/suspended tunnels instead of “wasting” our money on the state ferry system which had an annual ridership of 24,687,038 in 2018.
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Old 11-12-2019, 07:25 AM
 
18,652 posts, read 11,560,789 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
Wait am I getting this right, people in Washington are anti ferry? They are an extension of our state highways. Maybe we should start looking into building cross sound bridges/suspended tunnels instead of “wasting” our money on the state ferry system which had an annual ridership of 24,687,038 in 2018.
State is not anti-ferry. And yes, they are an extension of the highway system. However, Kitsap, which depends on the ferries, voted for Prop 976, so the argument could be made their ferries should increase. Island county did not vote for Prop 976.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 509 View Post
The last data available from about four years ago. Eastern Washington SENDS transportation dollars to western Washington.

I would support a toll on ALL the cross-Cascade highways of at least $20. I am willing to pay for my trips to Seattle and the mountain pass highways are EXPENSIVE to maintain period.

To save money, we can close all the passes with the exception of Satus Pass. There is no reason why people need to drive between eastern and western Washington during winter. After all, it is only for four months!!!

Oh, I did look up the impact of initiative on Chelan County roads...zero.

Does impact the urban areas in eastern Washington.

Maybe what we need is a local option gas tax. Give the counties and cities the right to tax gas and use it for local roads.
Impacts Tri-Cities too, and Richland and Prosser, not exactly urban meccas. Heavy tolls to Eastern Washington sounds good. And if the local roads need maintenance they could pay with tolls there too.
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Old 11-12-2019, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
1,188 posts, read 1,204,444 times
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Seacove, my understanding is that only 40 some % of transportation taxes collected in Eastern Washington are spent there. Likewise up here in Whatcom county it was 87%. I can't seem to find the chart I looked at some time ago that showed the taxes collected vs. spent by county. IIRC, the greater Seattle/Tacoma area uses all of it's own tax base AND sucks in another 19% from the rest of the state as well, which evidentially most of us are tired of. In addition, tabs got super expensive for people via ST3 so much local support was lost there as well.

509, one problem with your pass tolls is regarding trucking which is going to affect goods and food for all. There is a lot of freight going both ways over the passes. Unless commercial would be exempt from the toll.

Ferries need to go up, and probably will. I haven't taken the ferry in 3 years, yet I wonder how much of my taxes subsidized the 24 million ferry rides in 2018?
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Old 11-12-2019, 08:22 PM
 
18,652 posts, read 11,560,789 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkcarguy View Post
Seacove, my understanding is that only 40 some % of transportation taxes collected in Eastern Washington are spent there. Likewise up here in Whatcom county it was 87%. I can't seem to find the chart I looked at some time ago that showed the taxes collected vs. spent by county. IIRC, the greater Seattle/Tacoma area uses all of it's own tax base AND sucks in another 19% from the rest of the state as well, which evidentially most of us are tired of. In addition, tabs got super expensive for people via ST3 so much local support was lost there as well.

509, one problem with your pass tolls is regarding trucking which is going to affect goods and food for all. There is a lot of freight going both ways over the passes. Unless commercial would be exempt from the toll.

Ferries need to go up, and probably will. I haven't taken the ferry in 3 years, yet I wonder how much of my taxes subsidized the 24 million ferry rides in 2018?
Please show proof that eastern Washington is subsidizing Seattle. Earlier in the thread Tri-Cities is saying they were promised $41 million for two projects alone. Eastern Washington doesn’t have the tax base to pay for their own roads much less Seattle’s. But this may be the point where it breaks and each county pays for their own roads and transit which I fully support. As for trucking, the tolls on a truck would be spread over the contents. It would be fine. What might not be is some people in eastern Washington having to pay a toll to go each way to the grocery store.
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Old 11-13-2019, 08:29 AM
 
700 posts, read 1,034,031 times
Reputation: 1248
If it's the one I saw a few years ago, it was confusingly deceptive. The 40% rate was only for a very specific transportation package and "Eastern Washington" was made up of only the counties in the very north east of the state - it was really split into 6ish different groupings of counties, more than half made up what is generally considered Eastern Washington as in east of the Cascades. For different transportation packages the numbers are wildly different, usually depending on if they are buying new ferries or bridges or not. It wasn't even clear if the money was divided from total transportation income or just from what was allocated to that package. I gave up trying to interpret it into something useful, it certainly wasn't as simple as annual taxes in vs money spent.

Be careful what you wish for when it comes to taxes, since every county in Eastern Washington gets more from the general funds than they pay in. Paying a bit more in transportation taxes (if that is even true) probably doesn't make up the difference.
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