$120,000, 3 Kids, 1 Housewife: Suicide? (Seattle, Bellevue, Redmond: sales, real estate, apartment)

[Chenebe]

Originally Posted by toughguy

I agree Woof. Let's break it down:

120k a year, thats 10k a month gross, take out 30 percent for taxes thats 7k a month net

You are telling me, even with a mortgage payment, bills, daycare, etc..You can't get by on $1750 a week?

Mortgage payments can be around $1800 say (and that is not for an average house from what I gathered), so that leaves $5200 for the month. Day care is around $1500 per month from what I've heard (and is that only for one child?) ... that leaves $3700 for four weeks. Minus bills and food ... I dunno, doesn't sound like a lot to me.

[csfraw]

Originally Posted by Chenebe

Mortgage payments can be around $1800 say (and that is not for an average house from what I gathered), so that leaves $5200 for the month. Day care is around $1500 per month from what I've heard (and is that only for one child?) ... that leaves $3700 for four weeks. Minus bills and food ... I dunno, doesn't sound like a lot to me.

My Kids are in school, so no daycare ($1500) costs
so, that still leave me with $4200

[Ira500]

If you don't have child care costs and are not laden with credit card debt and are renting and are somewhat frugal, you should be just fine, as long as you don't have to pay for braces or a new car or have a long commute.

[Chenebe]

I'm finding it really hard to make a comparable calculation regarding whether our lifestyle can be maintained over in Seattle. When we speak to Seattlites who come over to NZ they say our housing is expensive (!!) and things here are more expensive.

I think they mean, for the same amount you get a house in better shape in Seattle (NZ houses have no insulation, etc). But we don't have many houses here that are in the millions like in Seattle.

But I'm wondering if it is still okay to come over if we take a drop in real dollar terms. My other concern is comparative wealth - the Eastside average household income is somewhat higher than it is here. So we are "comparatively" wealthy here. Whereas in Seattle I think we will be less so.

Maybe people here can shed some light on the basic things we will be spending on?

- Rental of a 3-4 bedroom house on the Eastside (any additionals to the rent?)
- average utility bills
- Organic food for 1 month for a family of 3
- How much does a pair of shoes cost?
- A pair of jeans
- Computer
- 40" LCD TV
- A family sized car (fits 6)
- fule per litre (or is it gallon)
- car insurance
- pre-school

We don't eat out much, don't smoke, don't drink, garden a lot, read a lot, play the Xbox a lot (haha). We drive one car. We have no credit card debt. We do travel a little more than average maybe twice a year.

[Ira500]

I'd say the rent on an eastside 3-4 bedroom can range from about 1500 to 2500 dollars+, but typically 1800-2000, average of all utilities averaging winter and summer with natural gas for heat, and electric, water, sewer and garbage about 160-200 per month. Shoes can be anywhere from 25 dollars a pair to the hundreds. Nordstrom Rack has some high quality shoes at steep discounts. I tend to spend about 60 dollars a pair for a good brand like Ecco or Clarks or Josef Seibel ( I am the male Imelda Marcos).
A decent new Dell laptop can be had for less than 500 dollars, and a 40" LCD TV? Maybe 900?

[Chenebe]

Woah, your laptops and TVs are CHEAP!!! Your shoes are cheap. Rent is high. Interesting. Ira, thanks again, as ever you are so helpful. I wish you many pairs of shoes in the future.

[Woof]

I hope you don't mind a personal question and a little tiny thread detour, Chenebe .... why would you move from New Zealand to the USA? From what little I know, NZ is a much more desirable place to live.

[drewba]

I couldn't tell you on most of these because I'm not much of shopper, but based on our 2007 numbers for a family of 4:

Utilities - $275 per month for gas, power, water and garbage on a 2,700 square foot house. The largest chunk is gas during the months when the furnace is running (September through June )

Groceries - $725 per month (includes some organic and non-grocery items bought at the grocery store)

Gas - About $4 per gallon and climbing fast

Car insurance is going to really depend on the type of coverage, where you live, the type of car and your driving record. It could be less than $50 per month and it could be several hundred. Full coverage on my 4 door sedan with a clean driving record is just under $75 per month.

A new family sized car is probably around $25,000 on average

[ST CRoix To Seattle]

LONG.

Our combined monthly after tax is $9012.00-

Up until March 08 we had two mortgages combined about $3900.00(impound on Property Taxes-the only way to go in my opinion)
no credit card debt,no student loans etc
we have 5 cars(2 daily drivers Suv/pickup) two of our cars has Full coverage,3 others do not.
Medical/Dental/vision paid by wifes job
we eat out 2-3 times per month
Our family lives In the Caribbean/Asia so we visit once a year-rotating years
we eat Organic foods/very Healthy which seems to cost a bit more.
utilities on 2 places
I have a car restoration habit/hobby/drain on retirement funds or whatever you want to call it,I also sew quite a bit of clothes as well.
My wife has a "can you believe I only paid $30.00 for these designer jeans habit" she is Frugal,I am not.
we buy food/gas/household supplies on two credit cards and pay them off every month-so we pay at best 20% of face value for airfare when we travel
outside the States.
Yet it is rare when we bank less than $1200-$2000.00 per month.

Having two Mortages and the expenses that come with both might or might not substitute for 3 kids-but combined with my habit of restoring cars I think it on par with the expenses of raising 2-3 kids in Seattle..

So for the life of me I just can't understand how 120K pushes you into a frugal lifestyle to afford Seattle.

I must mention just so it is Clear...one expense that we pay substantially less for is Auto Maintenance which is a substantial part of any household budget..

We are not big drinkers,I smoke a cigar occassionally,we do most our home maintenance repairs ourselves.

We only buy quality items(not always expensive) so we rarely rebuy the same item after a short period of time..

we don't follow any trends and our homes have very contemporary furnishings of good quality-we never buy anything that might be in style today and look dated next year that might cause us to replace.

We do have a home theater but bring your glasses as it boosts a 27 inch televison that we bought in 2002..

what we need-food,clothes,medical care is a must,what we want can wait until we can pay cash....

Right now take away my wifes 4k month salary and we keep on just the same as before,which may come soon as we start to have kids,if we pay daycare she works,if we don't pay daycare she stays home unless she would just need a break.

Our main Goal of moving to Wa was to cut our income,expenses,live off less,relax more....

I also have the mother of all commutes that won't change until we decide if keeping our current home or buying another in Alki Beach fits more with our new live off less,make less,relax more lifestyle....

Anyone saying 120k per year renting on the east side is unsustainable..did something they should not have done like take on a 400k mortgage when they were still paying down large student loans/credit card debts/new cars etc...or bought before they had actually saved enough for a down payment to afford the mortgage..spends too much bloody money on things they want that does not leave enough left for the things they need,have kids in private school,or taken on some other expense that the 120k salary cannot justify...there are always exceptions but adequate insurance coverage makes up for those emergencies in most cases....

what will people do if gas hits $8.00 as it is in europe and everything else attached to the price follows-move to someplace cheaper-there is no place cheaper if you spend to much...and in this new economy the powers that control the price of everything are already working hard making sure that the cost of living in WA versus CA will come equal in the end...you will pay the money to live either place it will just be applied to a different provider....

We are lucky and have worked very hard to make what we make but our main goal with Moving here is to make 1/2 and still live the same life and so far 100 percent perfect.

[Chenebe]

Woof: NZ is a great place! In many ways very much like Seattle, lots of nature, beaches, and less rain. :P We have a great life here, lots of friends and family, husband has a job he enjoys a lot, we have a house that we love (with about as great a commute as could be hoped without living in the office) ... so why would we leave? Well, the first reason, for adventure. Between the two of us we have lived in Asia, Africa and Australasia ... all that's missing is the Americas and Europe ... we think it will be interesting. The baby is young enough to not mind the disruption of moving at this point. If we stayed here we would have another 40 years of great life ... in the same place. Which is not a bad thing at all (our lovely neighbours are in their 70s and have lived in the same house for over 40 years!) but it might be interesting to try a different place ... but I don't really want to have a drop in lifestyle to satisfy my curiousity. The second reason, there are interesting work opportunities over in Seattle.

We are now thinking that maybe we should see this as an OE (overseas experience) rather than worrying too much about settling forever. I can see that Seattle is competitive. Your housing is less liquid than it is over here (longer to pull money out). Your schooling is expensive. Frankly, I don't feel like paying 50k a year to send my kid to college.

drewba: That detailed info is very useful thank you, and solidly borne out of your experience. My insurance is probably going to be atrocious seeing I don't have any record in the US. My record in NZ is pretty good though!

St CRoix to Seattle: I love reading posts like yours as it is so fascinating to see how others live (love the little details like car restoration hobbies and sewing!) A lot of what you say resonates for myself as well - esp about buying quality but not often. We didn't have TV for years (only got one a year ago). We saved and saved to pay off student debt. We always had a policy of not spending unless we had the money. We happily slept on mattresses on the floor for 5 years till we could afford custom made beds made super long for my super tall husband. We only ever buy new cars, but we only have one. I've worn the same winter coat 4 years running. Our big spend is food. Prob around $1200 plus a month. And we are not really DIY people, so all our home improvement has to be paid for (prob average $15,000 per year).

What is impound on property taxes?