20 cent tax on grocery bags enacted (Seattle, Snohomish: disposal, live, cost)

[sean98125]

You can buy 1000 plastic grocery bags for $23 on the internet. That's 2.3 cents each. That would last me a long time for waste can liners, car trash bags and cat litter but it's cheaper than paying the city's tax on them.

[70Ford]

It pays to recycle. People pay people good money to mine mountains for ore. People pay people good money to mine the desert for oil. People pay good money for people to search for recyclable goods in trash piles.

Or do they? If they don't, then why don't they?

Because it makes no financial sense? Or do they just hate the environment?
I'll be back with a relevant link...just can't find it right now.

[seattlenextyear]

That's an interesting editorial, which makes some good points. But, I guess he didn't think anyone already owns resuable bags or will buy cloth ones instead of #5 plastic ones. If you eliminate the #5 ones which I assume are those faux-retro ones you get at Trader Joes, his argument is significantly weakened. I also think he'd be surprised at how quickly a reusable bag will replace between 100-300 plastic bags, making it "worth it" in terms of resource use.

Originally Posted by Jennibc

Everyone is focusing on plastic here. Everyone does realized that paper bags carry the tax as well, don't they?

Great editorial in the paper today. It reads in part " When the currently free bags are taxed at 20 cents, we will buy reusable bags, probably by the millions. Most of these (generally made in China) are made from woven or flat sheet fabric polypropylene (type 5 plastic). It is extremely durable, but unlike the bag it will replace (type 2 plastic), it is not generally recyclable. Furthermore, because each one of these reusable bags requires as much as 300 times more resources to produce than a "bad" bag, it is entirely possible that the bag tax will result in an increase in oil use and carbon emissions." To read the entire thing see
Opinion | Why Seattle's bag tax is a bad idea | Seattle Times Newspaper

This is one of the most irritating things about living in this city. With environmentalism practiced like a religion here, people don't step back and look at the big picture. Anything that *sounds* good is embraced without a critical evaluation. Many of the pro-tax comments on this website illustrate how little investigation those posting the comments have actually done.

We were at a friend's house several weeks ago and he lamented that he always asked for paper and then used those paper bags to line his garbage can. Now he will start purchasing plastic trash can liners. Way to go city in changing our behavior!

Geez, I hope the economy turns around so we can be out of here by January when the tax goes into effect!

[sean98125]

Originally Posted by seattlenextyear

That's an interesting editorial, which makes some good points. But, I guess he didn't think anyone already owns resuable bags or will buy cloth ones instead of #5 plastic ones. If you eliminate the #5 ones which I assume are those faux-retro ones you get at Trader Joes, his argument is significantly weakened. I also think he'd be surprised at how quickly a reusable bag will replace between 100-300 plastic bags, making it "worth it" in terms of resource use.

Personally I'm not that interested in using a reusable bag to clean the cat litter or to line the garbage can in the bathroom. That seems like a pricey option.

[Jennibc]

Originally Posted by seattlenextyear

That's an interesting editorial, which makes some good points. But, I guess he didn't think anyone already owns resuable bags or will buy cloth ones instead of #5 plastic ones. If you eliminate the #5 ones which I assume are those faux-retro ones you get at Trader Joes, his argument is significantly weakened. I also think he'd be surprised at how quickly a reusable bag will replace between 100-300 plastic bags, making it "worth it" in terms of resource use.

I imagine the #5 plastic ones are far cheaper than than the canvas ones. If the price is much less, far more people will use those. People seem to think that everyone in Seattle has tons of disposable income to buy the more pricey canvas bags. I'll tell you what I am going to do. From now on, I'm asking for plastic instead of paper. I should have enough of them by January to bring a wad into the store every time I shop.

Also another consideration is the logistics of passing the checker your reusable bags to pack groceries. How much more time is that going to add to checkout. Say it adds on average a minute to each transaction. How much more time are we going to spend in line? While one might argue, people can bag their own groceries (I do when I go to Trader Joes because I feel stupid just standing there while the groceries pile up), so few people are willing to do that.

[Woof]

Originally Posted by bigtrees

I'm very dismayed to see the tax put in place. It may make sense for city-dwellers in Seattle that stop by the grocery store on their way home for work everyday and don't buy very much.

But I'm a country man who (my wife actually) who makes the trip to grocery store once every two or three weeks. She'll usually buy enough groceries that about 10 bags are used for each trip. Same goes for the monthly trip to Walmart or Target. One resuable bag will not hold nearly enough groceries for our family.

By far and large, we use the bags around the house and most don't get thrown out. I think this is just another way to tax, tax, tax us to death!

As an engineer, I recognize that the plastic bags don't use much raw material and don't contribute much to the waste stream. Drinking Starbucks coffee - a Seattle favorite - consumes a lot more resources than a simple plastic bag. Going out to lunch and dinner - another Seattle favorite - is incredibly wasteful. Participating in parades, festivals, fairs, and the like uses resources, too.

I've also read that the materials used to make a reusable bag equal that of 1,000 disposable bags. I'll be surprised if I get more than 20 or 30 uses out of the reusable bag (rough 1 years worth). Certainly not 1000 uses.

Fortunately, I live in Auburn where the government is not motivated to change things, so we will not be impacted by the new rules anytime soon.

You can get way more than 1000 uses out of a large dufflebag or backpack. I still have my REI Greatstar that I bought maybe 10-15 years ago, and have loaded it VERY heavily on many occasions, often mostly with heavy groceries like canned goods.

[tada]

Originally Posted by sean98125

You can buy 1000 plastic grocery bags for $23 on the internet. That's 2.3 cents each. That would last me a long time for waste can liners, car trash bags and cat litter but it's cheaper than paying the city's tax on them.

Even Cali only charges 5-10 cents a bag, and in some states, they take the money off prices for bringing your own bag instead of penalizing you.

Seattle blows.

[jenlion]

Originally Posted by tada

...and in some states, they take the money off prices for bringing your own bag instead of penalizing you.

Isn't that pretty much the same thing??

[seattlenextyear]

Originally Posted by tada

Even Cali only charges 5-10 cents a bag, and in some states, they take the money off prices for bringing your own bag instead of penalizing you.

Seattle blows.

I don't think states do this in as so much as individual retailers do. Whole Foods gives you 0.05 per bag. My local co-op does too.

[Freebird2007]

I went to QFC last night for some grocery shopping (versus just picking up an item or two) and the thought of trying to cram in 4 bags of groceries into a single canvas bag or having to carry around 4 of them makes my head ache