$6 Bridge Tolls? (property taxes, gas, commute)

[sean98125]

In Kansas City, there was (and may still be) a tax on people who worked in Kansas City, MO but lived in Kansas.

We should do something like that now - if you live on one side of the lake and work on the other, you pay something each month out of your paycheck that goes to fund cross-lake transportation improvements.

[Pittgal]

Originally Posted by sean98125

In Kansas City, there was (and may still be) a tax on people who worked in Kansas City, MO but lived in Kansas.

We should do something like that now - if you live on one side of the lake and work on the other, you pay something each month out of your paycheck that goes to fund cross-lake transportation improvements.

I think all that'll do is force big companies to move out of downtown Seattle since most employees aren't going to like that since its the only way for eastsiders to get into downtown.

[sean98125]

I think there's probably just as much traffic going from Seattle to the Eastside these days.

It's a good way to capture revenue from all of the cross-lake commuters, regardless of their commute method.

[MaikeerinWA]

Very true. There are still a lot of jobs in Seattle, but the days of one-way commuting are long gone. Many people live in Seattle and work on the Eastside.

Originally Posted by sean98125

I think there's probably just as much traffic going from Seattle to the Eastside these days.

[Freebird2007]

Originally Posted by sean98125

I think there's probably just as much traffic going from Seattle to the Eastside these days.

It's a good way to capture revenue from all of the cross-lake commuters, regardless of their commute method.

all of a sudden I had this picture of a bully forcing little kids to give up their lunch money

[Rune]

If they intend to use tolls to influence traffic patterns, wouldn't it make sense to use some sort of demand pricing, where the price goes up as congestion goes up and down when traffic is lighter?

Also, instead of focusing on developing more capacity to host single passenger vehicles when the writing is on the wall about the spiraling cost of fuel (both monetary and environmental) in our future, which will tend to reduce one-passenger per car commuting, wouldn't it make more sense to put the same vast amounts of money into improving mass transit and developing better options for quick trips (by bike, shuttle, Zip car, etc.) around the major transit hubs?

In general, relying on bridge and road tolls to fund transportation is a slippery slope. The objectives underlying the scheme are at cross purposes. On the one hand, the government agencies want money to fund their projects. They always want bigger budgets and more and bigger projects. On the other hand, there is a need to limit the use of transportation infrastructure because wider bridges and roads are too expensive to endlessly expand. The unfortunate result is often that alternative transportation (which should become the dominate transportation in any sane plan to deal with energy and climate crises looming ahead) becomes a target for fees and tolls when drivers have been squeezed as much as possible, thus undermining a shift away from more cars, more traffic jams, and more pollution.

Trying to create the change we need with big projects is not very promising. We need to change our habits and the infrastructure and institutions that support and reinforce them. Most people strongly object to being forced to make big, sudden changes in their lives. Therefore, if we rely on big projects, we have a choice of accommodating more of the same patterns that are already failing us in many ways or trying to promote sudden and drastic changes, which is politically difficult, if not impossible.

I think Copenhagen offers a more promising model. Back in the 1970s, the city recognized that it needed to get people out of cars. They developed a long range plan to promote walking, biking, and public transportation, then, year by year, phased out a few parking spaces at a time, added a little more room and niceties for pedestrians, cyclists, and transit riders, and gradually shifted their budgets to support the new transportation patterns that emerged. Today, the percentage of people relying on cars to get around Copenhagen is about half what it was a few decades ago, there has been no significant resistance to the shift, and people love the friendly streets and squares that flourish as a result of the gradual change of culture. Just something to think about. . . .

[sean98125]

They are looking at pricing based on demand, just like they have in the HOT lanes on 167.

[JDTD]

Originally Posted by dcoolbro

They may just end up charging for one way like they do for the Bay Bridge in San Francisco/Oakland. Either way it's still a bit steep. One thing I enjoyed about Seattle is not having to deal with tolls. Here in Houston I have to put up with tolls everyday.

At the same time, in Texas, they are building new roads or improving roads everywhere (from what I could see). Here in Washington, you don't see a g-damn thing for your taxes (IMO). Where the f does all our current tax money go (like the 20 cents extra per gallon for gas that we pay over most states like Texas) to necessitate all this. Also...driving in Texas, I noticed that you could just go around the tolls and it wasn't even an inconvenience because the frontage roads were as good and had as many lanes as our main roads here (at least the places I drove down there). Here...they got ya. It's a lot harder going around water.

[sean98125]

Originally Posted by JDTD

Here in Washington, you don't see a g-damn thing for your taxes (IMO). Where the f does all our current tax money go

It goes the f into hundreds of road projects.

Here's a list of currently active projects that your gas tax is funding:

WSDOT - Project Index List

Here's an interactive map of all of the active projects

Capital Projects Reporting System

And here's a map of recently completed projects

Capital Projects Reporting System

[jmgleit]

And you people keep forgetting that there is no state income tax. Twenty cents on a gallon of gas is nothing. If you use 15 gallons of gas a week every week that is $150 a year in tax. Most people, in Texas for example, pay a lot more than that in state taxes.
Don't get me wrong I like not paying state tax but it is amazing that WA can get anything paid for without it.
When I lived in Cincinnati I paid a combined state and local tax of about $10,000 a year.