How much do you need to make to live comfortably? (Seattle: condo, mortgage)

[allforcats]

Originally Posted by ComfortablyNumb

Could someone give me an idea of just how expensive seattle is if you just want to rent? Are basic things (restaurants, groceries, car repair, etc etc) a lot more expensive too?

"More expensive" than where? NYC? No. Ames IO? Yes.

Here is a great overview of rentals, from the combined classifieds of the two leading newspapers in and around Seattle. Click on places in the map to drill down to areas and neighborhoods you might be interested in:
NWapartments: Seattle apartment rentals, house rental listings, rental classifieds and other property rentals in Seattle, Tacoma, Bellevue and other Washington areas, cities and neighborhoods

As for comparative cost of living in U.S. cities, you might consult this study from the Information Please Database, which compares groceries, housing, utilities, transportation, health care, and goods & services:
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0883960.html

Or:
http://www.lib.umich.edu/govdocs/steccpi.html
especially:
http://www.moving.com/real-estate/ci...file/index.asp
and
http://cgi.money.cnn.com/tools/costo...tofliving.html

From the first cost of living reference, InfoPlease:
Data through first quarter 2005, with "100" as baseline:
212 New York (Manhattan)
177 San Francisco
162 Honolulu
153 Los Angeles
141 San Diego
137 Washington D.C.
136 Boston
131 Juneau
128 Chicago
119 Philadelphia
118 Seattle
110 Portland, OR
109 Las Vegas
109 Eugene, OR
107 Baltimore
107 Cheyenne, WY
106 Detroit
104 Baton Rouge
103 Albuquerque
103 Denver
102 Cleveland
102 Minneapolis
101 Milwaukee
101 Richmond, VA

99 St. Louis, MO
98 Buffalo
98 Phoenix
97 Atlanta
97 Billings, MT
97 Salt Lake City
96 Colorado Springs
96 Montgomery, AL
95 Cincinnati
95 Dallas
94 Des Moines, IO
94 San Antonio
93 Charlotte
92 Jackson, MI
92 Jacksonville, FL
92 Oklahoma City
92 Omaha
92 Springfield, IL
92 Topeka
91 El Paso
89 Memphis

[Jennibc]

Originally Posted by Pittgal

Not true for all. We moved here for hubby to work at a "tech" company. The stock was 32.00 when we came in 2006, it is now 82.00. Thats 50.00 more a share we get then we thought, I'd say that they're still going up!

Of course it's not true for all. There are a few stocks, like Amazon, that are still climbing but it is NOTHING like what was going on here in 97-99 when just about everyone we knew here working in the tech sector was cashing in options and building a second story on their homes for cash or buying BMWs for cash. I have old acquaintances that went to work for microsoft in 1986, retired in 1993 and will never have to work a day again in their lives. But those days are over.

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by Jennibc

Significantly more than where? We found that in the technical sector, it does NOT pay much better than where we lived in Austin, TX. Lawyers, professors, many kinds of doctors, and research scientists don't make any more than many less expensive parts of the country either. People in the tech sector were really making money with stock options which probably drove up the cost of living here in the late nineties (much more money circulating in the area at that time) But you very rarely hear of people getting a big lift in their incomes that way anymore mostly because tech stocks are not going through the roof any longer.

Sorry, can't agree. There is much more of a variety of industry in Seattle as compared to Austin. The Health/Medical industry and many apparel companies such as London Fog, Union Bay, Tommy Bahama, REI just to name a few reside in Seattle with healthy IT depts/deeper pockets.
You will find pay hikes in Seattle. A buddy\colleague recently jumped from 45K starting out in Help Desk to 85k working as a Systems Engineer in the health industry to a nice 110k for a company who develops server software he has been in IT for 7 years. I lived in Seattle 99-2004 I have lived in Austin since 2006 working for a successful private software company I've been in the IT sector and started in IT systems progressing to software engineering. I have taken a 15K pay cut in Austin for a hip private company but, very successful. I hunted selectively and feel fortunate but, the "cut" was still there. I try to avoid the "Gorilla" companies such as AMD or the big D. I do see IT Engineers in both systems and software take good size pay hits in Austin and perhaps it's the types of companies\industries available it's either med-large sized companies or small startups. Austin is a quality place to live but, it doesn't pay like Seattle in Information Technology unless you are an entrepeneur\owner of a successful startup or have had some tenure at a large company in management for say Dell... no thanks

[Jennibc]

Originally Posted by Raziel

Sorry, can't agree. There is much more of a variety of industry in Seattle as compared to Austin. The Health/Medical industry and many apparel companies such as London Fog, Union Bay, Tommy Bahama, REI just to name a few reside in Seattle with healthy IT depts/deeper pockets.
You will find pay hikes in Seattle. A buddy\colleague recently jumped from 45K starting out in Help Desk to 85k working as a Systems Engineer in the health industry to a nice 110k for a company who develops server software he has been in IT for 7 years. I lived in Seattle 99-2004 I have lived in Austin since 2006 working for a successful private software company I've been in the IT sector and started in IT systems progressing to software engineering. I have taken a 15K pay cut in Austin for a hip private company but, very successful. I hunted selectively and feel fortunate but, the "cut" was still there. I try to avoid the "Gorilla" companies such as AMD or the big D. I do see IT Engineers in both systems and software take good size pay hits in Austin and perhaps it's the types of companies\industries available it's either med-large sized companies or small startups. Austin is a quality place to live but, it doesn't pay like Seattle in Information Technology unless you are an entrepeneur\owner of a successful startup or have had some tenure at a large company in management for say Dell... no thanks

Please note that I am writing from our perspective and that perspective relates to the big engineering companies. And I assert there is not that big of a difference in pay (we still have a few friends working down there and I recently read an article about Austin having one of the best paying tech sectors in the country relative to cost of living, I will see if I can find it and put the link in this post). And while you may have taken a $15K pay cut, the difference in cost of housing and groceries probably makes you better off down there. So my response remains unchanged, if you live in a much cheaper market, while you may get a wage increase, you may not have the same purchasing power as the market you leave to come here.

Spent five minutes looking for the article - cannot find it easily so instead using the cost of living link that someone recommended earlier put in some numbers.
Cost of Living Comparison:
Seattle, Washington - Austin, Texas
Moderator cut: linking to competitors sites is not allowed Austin is 27% cheaper than Seattle.
Housing is the biggest factor in the cost of living difference.
Housing is 47% cheaper in Austin.

A salary of $100,000 in Seattle, Washington could decrease to $72,844 in Austin, Texas



So if you had a job making 100,000 in Seattle and moved to Austin to take a 15K pay cut and now are making 85K you are still much better off down there. But I digress because we don't even know whether this person is in the tech sector or where he or she is coming from. So, in conclusion, Seattle is damn expensive and before you make the move, make sure you can afford it and make sure what you are getting into. I wish we had been smart enough at the time to look into it. What can I say, we were young and let emotion play too much into our decision. Eight years later, we are that much older, wiser, and that much poorer for the experience ;-)

[ComfortablyNumb]

I don't buy those cost of living comparisons. When it says stuff like, 50,000 in Chicago is like 115,000 in San Francisco, or whatever, I just don't buy it. I don't think Seattle is THAT much more expensive unless you are looking to buy a house, in which it still isn't 28,000 more a year anyway.

[Huckleberry3911948]

comfort is living below your means. i know people that make 80k a year and are hurting.

[SeattlitefromNC]

Originally Posted by ComfortablyNumb

I don't buy those cost of living comparisons. When it says stuff like, 50,000 in Chicago is like 115,000 in San Francisco, or whatever, I just don't buy it. I don't think Seattle is THAT much more expensive unless you are looking to buy a house, in which it still isn't 28,000 more a year anyway.

Groceries are one thing that fluctuate wildly depending on where you are. I am from the South, and groceries there are consistently less there than they are up here (due largely to the availability of roads for truck traffic and gas, plus good ol' inflationary pressures).

Taxes also vary depending on where you are. WA State doesn't have an income tax (thank goodness), but what that means is that every other tax is subsequently higher to make up for that fact. Sales tax, excise tax, B&O, and so on ...

There are many factors that play into cost of living. Housing and even renting is very expensive in Seattle; my friends in both Vancouver, WA and Vancouver, BC are paying less in rent than me for comparable space ... there is about a 15-20% markup for living in Seattle.

Now, is it all worth it? To me, that answer is an unequivocal YES. But, I think it's worth it to tell people the whole story so they can make informed decisions.

[seattlenextyear]

I think you might be surprised if you came back here and did some grocery shopping. Its just as expensive as DC, and more expensive that the Northeast.

Originally Posted by SeattlitefromNC

Groceries are one thing that fluctuate wildly depending on where you are. I am from the South, and groceries there are consistently less there than they are up here (due largely to the availability of roads for truck traffic and gas, plus good ol' inflationary pressures).

Taxes also vary depending on where you are. WA State doesn't have an income tax (thank goodness), but what that means is that every other tax is subsequently higher to make up for that fact. Sales tax, excise tax, B&O, and so on ...

There are many factors that play into cost of living. Housing and even renting is very expensive in Seattle; my friends in both Vancouver, WA and Vancouver, BC are paying less in rent than me for comparable space ... there is about a 15-20% markup for living in Seattle.

Now, is it all worth it? To me, that answer is an unequivocal YES. But, I think it's worth it to tell people the whole story so they can make informed decisions.

[Jennibc]

Originally Posted by ComfortablyNumb

I don't buy those cost of living comparisons. When it says stuff like, 50,000 in Chicago is like 115,000 in San Francisco, or whatever, I just don't buy it. I don't think Seattle is THAT much more expensive unless you are looking to buy a house, in which it still isn't 28,000 more a year anyway.

Well, the median cost of a house in Austin is just over 200K right now and in Seattle it is something like 470K (it was over 500K last year Business & Technology | Median price for house in Seattle tops $500,000 | Seattle Times Newspaper
. Having lived in both places, yes, Seattle is that much more expensive. Whether you "buy it" or not doesn't matter. It is what it is.

PS-
A salary of $50,000 in Chicago, Illinois should increase to $74,034 in San Francisco, California

[Jennibc]

Originally Posted by seattlenextyear

I think you might be surprised if you came back here and did some grocery shopping. Its just as expensive as DC, and more expensive that the Northeast.

I was down for a visit (in Austin) in April and while produce was the same as here, everything else in the grocery story was far less expensive. Cereal that typically goes for $4.79 here was going for 2.25 there, milk was a 1.50 less a gallon, packaged food was also less. Egss less, meat less, etc.

The purpose of my visit was actually to get a sense of prices because we were considering moving back and I wasn't about to move again without doing my homework - didn't do that for the move here and it really hurt us. So it wasn't that I was randomly noticing the prices, I was purposely comparing them! I also looked at houses and even with the staggering property tax bills down there, you get so much more house for less money it is mind boggling.

I know, this is not a thread comparing Seattle to Austin, but I bring this up because I think anyone contemplating moving to a new area would be wise to really check out the area first - and not just checking it out to see if they think it would be cool to live - but to see if it is affordable as well. It's a drag to drop a $1000 for "fact finding" mission, but in the long run it is worth it!