Hey Folks.......I'm nearly to the point (Seattle, Bellevue: for sale, real estate)

[leedspaddy]

Hi folks, my wife is from maryland and earlier this year we moved back to maryland from Vermont. Call me superstitious but I have always held the belief that it is never really as good when you return the second time around when you leave a place with happy memories. We were glad to get out of Vermont but we are still very unsettled..........hence my posting. I am nearly to the point where my wife will agree to get on a plane with me to go and take a look at Seattle/ washington state. I've been to the great city of seattle twice before but that was back in the late 90s so I am sure it has changed. I hoping there are people on here who can share their experiences of Seattle both good and bad and if someone could tell me of any websites aside from this one that can give me information regarding job markets, employers and schools for my kids. Also, I will be very interested to hear if there is anyone from the east coast who made the move to the Seattle/Washington state area...and to hear their stories.

Finally, everyone seems to make the usual comment that it is always raining in seattle but what are the winters like?

Thanks again for taking the time to read my post

[Ira500]

I escaped to Seattle from the east coast 31 years ago...In recent years, the economy in Seattle has been very strong, but past results cannot predict the future. The Seattle area is really pretty, water and green hills and having come from New Jersey, I was shocked to find so few bad areas around Seattle. Most places are relatively safe, and those areas with higher crime rates are also places that people like a lot, like Ballard, the University District, downtown, First Hill, parts of the Central District, and parts of Capitol Hill. These areas are just a little denser and varied, still a picnic compared to places like Camden or the South Bronx, where there are blocks upon blocks of endless blight. nothing like that here at all.

The winters? It's funny, those folks from California complain about how miserable the winters are here, but I think for most of us exiles from the Northeast, we find the winters here rather mild. There are some horrible winter days on an annual basis, but that's usually a period of several days straight where it's 39 degrees and raining hard and windy...It gets below freezing not hardly at all in the winter, but I remember about 15 years ago or so we had a winter where it never reached 20 degrees for about two weeks straight, but that's much more freakish, and a typical winter day is most likely cloudy with a little drizzle and around 50 degrees.

[leedspaddy]

Originally Posted by Ira500

I escaped to Seattle from the east coast 31 years ago...In recent years, the economy in Seattle has been very strong, but past results cannot predict the future. The Seattle area is really pretty, water and green hills and having come from New Jersey, I was shocked to find so few bad areas around Seattle. Most places are relatively safe, and those areas with higher crime rates are also places that people like a lot, like Ballard, the University District, downtown, First Hill, parts of the Central District, and parts of Capitol Hill. These areas are just a little denser and varied, still a picnic compared to places like Camden or the South Bronx, where there are blocks upon blocks of endless blight. nothing like that here at all.

The winters? It's funny, those folks from California complain about how miserable the winters are here, but I think for most of us exiles from the Northeast, we find the winters here rather mild. There are some horrible winter days on an annual basis, but that's usually a period of several days straight where it's 39 degrees and raining hard and windy...It gets below freezing not hardly at all in the winter, but I remember about 15 years ago or so we had a winter where it never reached 20 degrees for about two weeks straight, but that's much more freakish, and a typical winter day is most likely cloudy with a little drizzle and around 50 degrees.

Coming from a state, where 5 months of year people hibernated because it never stopped snowing and temperatures averaged around 10 degrees with many days below 0, it will make a refreshing change to have mild winters. It was great to hear that you consider Seattle and surrounding areas to be relatively safe...........I want a safe place to raise my kids. So I've always wondered............do you have to be rich to live on one of those islands opposite Seattle and does it really rain as much as people say....and if yes does it get depressing after a while?

[Ira500]

do you have to be rich to live on one of those islands opposite Seattle and does it really rain as much as people say....
Mercer Island is pricey, Bainbridge Island is slightly less so, and Vashon Island is not more expensive than some Seattle neighborhoods.
It doesn't really rain as much as people say. But there is a lack of sunshine that gets to some people.

[allforcats]

If you want to find out about the weather here, you can Google any question you think of, and good information will come up.

In sum, for 9 months here, we get drizzle and mist and mizzle. Not much rain at all, and rarely ever any downpours.
Most days during those 9 months are cloudy, with very complex photographable clouds. Most of the cloudy days have "sunbreaks", brief outbreaks of sunshine surrounded by cloudiness.

I also came from back east, NYC. This area is so mellow by comparison, and pretty darned safe.

The Washington state threads have a lot of information about specific places on the islands. Here's a current thread about the islands in general:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/seatt...r-seattle.html

[Jennibc]

Do you have to be rich? What do you consider rich? Can you be "middle class" and live on an island? Not a chance if you want to buy a house. In fact, it is increasingly more difficult to live in the area (as a home owner) if you make the median salary for the area.

[Ira500]

Great post, Jennibc. One measure of how overvalued a particular market is the ratio of median house price to median salary, and by that measure, the Seattle area is pretty overpriced.
Some will argue that the natural beauty and strong economy make Seattle a more desirable place to live, and that will command a higher premium and protect the area from major downturns. Maybe that's true to a certain degree, but if there are lots of homes for sale and people can't afford to buy them, the logical thing would be for house prices to drop in order to get them sold.
...But back to island living- currently there are more houses for sale for under 400,000 dollars( about 40 homes) on Vashon Island than there are in Bellevue. Mercer Island has zero, and Bainbridge might have a 300 square foot fallen down shack.

[Jennibc]

.

..But back to island living- currently there are more houses for sale for under 400,000 dollars( about 40 homes) on Vashon Island than there are in Bellevue. Mercer Island has zero, and Bainbridge might have a 300 square foot fallen down shack.

This gets us back to the definition of rich. Someone making the median income for the area would still not be able to afford something for just under 400K. So despite there being some homes on Vashon for under 400K unless they are in the 250 -300 range they likely aren't something that someone who is middle class would be able to afford. According to realtor.com home affordability calculator, someone with a 70K income and 30K for a down payment and no debt would qualify for a 233K house.

[Ira500]

You're totally right, Jenni. ..And in the past few years lenders were giving money to just about anybody with a pulse, and the traditional lending standards were kinda thrown out the window, so people thought that if a lender was willing to make them a loan, then they must be able to afford it, and from the lenders to the Realtors, etc, the message was "Don't worry about it, real estate always goes up."

[obsidian97]

Originally Posted by Jennibc

...is increasingly more difficult to live in the area (as a home owner) if you make the median salary for the area.

Shouldn't it be getting a little easier to buy a house now if you make the median salary for the area?

Housing prices have been coming down much quicker than inflation in owner's equivalent rent has been going up.

Based on the cost side of the equation I'd say it continues to be difficult, not that it's getting more difficult.

Originally Posted by Jennibc

.
This gets us back to the definition of rich. Someone making the median income for the area would still not be able to afford something for just under 400K. So despite there being some homes on Vashon for under 400K unless they are in the 250 -300 range they likely aren't something that someone who is middle class would be able to afford. According to realtor.com home affordability calculator, someone with a 70K income and 30K for a down payment and no debt would qualify for a 233K house.

Which also supports my point that it continues to be difficult. Using your numbers, a house that is $233,001 is just as hard to qualify as one that is $400,000. In either case, you won't qualify. Since the $400k house price is getting closer to $233k than the $233k house is getting to $400k (because housing prices are going down, not up)... if anything it's getting easier or staying just as difficult as it was before.

A $250k is still impossible, for someone with $70k in income and $30k in down-payment, but it's approaching possible a little bit more everyday because house prices are coming down.

Originally Posted by Ira500

You're totally right, Jenni. ..And in the past few years lenders were giving money to just about anybody with a pulse, and the traditional lending standards were kinda thrown out the window, so people thought that if a lender was willing to make them a loan, then they must be able to afford it, and from the lenders to the Realtors, etc, the message was "Don't worry about it, real estate always goes up."

Not to mention the new (old?) credit tiers that they are putting into place for interest rates. Suddenly, FICO scores (for all their problems) are being used as a more fine-grained measure of risk.