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I could not help but think of a story told to me by a business mentor I worked with decades ago, in Tucson. I had recently received a promotion from a manufacturing job, to a low-level office job, and was going to community college after work and weekends. When invited to go out with the "old gang" after work, to which I had declined because of a class, I received a hurtful remark from a friend, about me thinking I was too good, but I was NOTHING. (Ouch!) Anyway, what my mentor told me, as I complained to him is this:
"People are like crabs in a pot. As long as you're hanging around the bottom of the trap, the others accept you as one of them. If you try to crawl up out of the trap, the others will pull you back down, and attack you -- you are no longer one of them."
I think what you are facing are people that resent you for your achievements, but to ridicule those would be to shed light on their lack of achievement, so instead, they attack your behavior as "not black."
I wonder what they would answer, if you asked them what the definition of "black enough" would be? Further, what if you were to ask them how that was working for them?
Personally, I think you should not pay attention to what those people are saying. The only people that should concern you, are those that are going to help you achieve your goals. I found mentors where I wanted to be, and listened to them. The others, while their comments did sting, I learned to turn them off.
I think that President Obama is going to show the ignorant people in this country -- of all races, economic, and education levels that casting stones is passe, and it's time to put your sneers into constructive actions for the good of all persons, regardless of petty differences.
I hope so.
That is one think I have to keep thinking of. The crabs in a barrel theory. Some of the people I went to high school with didn't go to college or do anything else. I was the person who always rose his hand in class, not to ask a question, but to make a response involving what I knew in class. Some of my teachers loved that about me, that I was the one giving facts that most kids never knew. Some of my classmates(not all, but some of them) hated this. Some of them openly told me they didn't care what I had to say. I think it was a matter of resentment. Some of them didn't know what I knew and they resented the fact that I knew more than what they knew. A friend of mine told me that I made some of my classmates feel stupid and they couldn't respond in a better way than to lash out at me. My friend told me that the day I graduated from high school none of that would matter because I would be going to better places than some of the students who frequently lashed out at me. I think that was one think that kept me going in high school. You have a point about the crabs in a barrel mentality.
Pirate;
It sounds like you and I have lived a similar childhood. I've always been a reader, and quickly grew from the silliness of children's books to reading what my parents had around the house -- mostly my dad's military strategies and biographies of consequential people. I quickly moved to library visits and my own choices, but the point is that my HOBBY gave me an unplanned advantage over my classmates. I've always loved learning new things in life, and have never looked at school as a "chore." At 53, I am still looking forward to returning to school, once we find our new "Mayberry."
That's a long way of saying that our results happened unintentionally, but others that had different hobbies, like hangin' with the crowd, might see us as "brown nosin'."
Each of us has difficulty facing the consequences of our choices, when the results don't turn out well, even when we are not aware we made a choice. When we see someone else with better results, having chosen differently, we harbor hard feelings toward ourself, or that person. In that regard, it is probably easier to blame the other, though it isn't as productive to take the hit ourselves, and learn from it.
You sound like a well-informed, thoughtful man, wise beyond your years. I have no doubt that you will succeed in what ever future choices you make, and as you do so, you will encounter much more cutting remarks and resentments from those that have not made their marks. (Look at President Obama's situation -- talk about "slings and arrows!") Consider it a barometer of your success.
More importantly, remember where the resentment comes from, and feel compassion toward your aggressors. It is their pain that sets them upon you, like cornered dogs. I hope when you do succeed, in whatever field you choose, you will seek to improve the plights of your attackers. If not for them, then for those that follow behind them, so the next person like yourself has an easier way.
Remember, there are those of us, like myself, that will always be in your corner, supporting your efforts. Best wishes.
Pirate;
It sounds like you and I have lived a similar childhood. I've always been a reader, and quickly grew from the silliness of children's books to reading what my parents had around the house -- mostly my dad's military strategies and biographies of consequential people. I quickly moved to library visits and my own choices, but the point is that my HOBBY gave me an unplanned advantage over my classmates. I've always loved learning new things in life, and have never looked at school as a "chore." At 53, I am still looking forward to returning to school, once we find our new "Mayberry."
That's a long way of saying that our results happened unintentionally, but others that had different hobbies, like hangin' with the crowd, might see us as "brown nosin'."
Each of us has difficulty facing the consequences of our choices, when the results don't turn out well, even when we are not aware we made a choice. When we see someone else with better results, having chosen differently, we harbor hard feelings toward ourself, or that person. In that regard, it is probably easier to blame the other, though it isn't as productive to take the hit ourselves, and learn from it.
You sound like a well-informed, thoughtful man, wise beyond your years. I have no doubt that you will succeed in what ever future choices you make, and as you do so, you will encounter much more cutting remarks and resentments from those that have not made their marks. (Look at President Obama's situation -- talk about "slings and arrows!") Consider it a barometer of your success.
More importantly, remember where the resentment comes from, and feel compassion toward your aggressors. It is their pain that sets them upon you, like cornered dogs. I hope when you do succeed, in whatever field you choose, you will seek to improve the plights of your attackers. If not for them, then for those that follow behind them, so the next person like yourself has an easier way.
Remember, there are those of us, like myself, that will always be in your corner, supporting your efforts. Best wishes.
I think this harkens to the original question. Many people get "clowned" by others because others feel threatened. Realizing why some people were resentful of me helped me make it through high school, and that is why I am in college now. It is nice to know there are people in my corner who want me to succeed.
I read my first post on this thread. Knowing what I know now, the reason many blacks from places like Seattle face getting "clowned" by persons from Atlanta is a sad product of feeling threatened. When some people feel threatened, making fun is their own passive-agressive way of dealing with a situation.
I think it has more to do with the fact that blacks from Seattle are often thought of as "not black enough". Sad but true. Many blacks don't even consider Seattle as a place to live. I'm black and I used to live there myself. I loved it and plan to go back. As for being clowned, I'm not surprised. There is alot of aversion towards Seattle in the eyes of many Atlanta residents, black and white.
props to OP and this poster for bringing this issue to light. I went to seattle once and asked the man in the plane next to me if it was diverse. He looked at me in the eye and said, "No, its pretty whitebread - and I like that". WOW. way to hate on minorities you scummy bottom feeder!! what a jerk. it definitely dimmed my view of native seattle residents, although intellectually i know i know, its only one person. But still.
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as for ppl who say anyone is not black enough-
so ignorant! what idiot says someone is not black enough. i feel terrible that you had to go through that, also to OP. did you know that in brazil, the children of same biological parents can be considered of two different races? CRAZy but true. Race is such a weird ****ed up thing. Why cant we just say "He has brown skin" the same way we say someone has "hazel eyes" or is "6 ft Tall" and not have it have to mean anything more or less than just a physical description. GRR. down, haters!
Add that in with the multitude of blacks who buy in to the collectivism idea of "blackness," and you have the Northeast US.
This is so true. This is why I feel that "black" is an American culture, not a description. Its one thing to say "I have brown skin/caramel skin/black skin" than to say "I"M" black.
Saying "I'm black" to me indicates that there is some identity that goes beyond just looks. I have international friends from africa and I never thought of them as "black". I think of them as "african".
I definitely think there is richness to black culture, and negatives as well. The deep complexity of black culture(s) are interesting and I hope to continue to educate myself on this issue as I grow older, meet more people, and learn of peoples firsthand experiences with race.
Personally, I don't think Seattle could be any worse than other parts of the country. Me and my family used to live there and we never had any problems. Much of the trouble happened in parts of rural Georgia. The difference I see is that Seattle doesn't have the same narrative as say, Louisiana or Georgia. Personally, the issue of racism is something that exists all over the nation, it has just manifested itself in many ways across the nation. This is a nationwide problem.
I have been to a few festivals and concerts in metro Atlanta. I am usually one of the few minorities there.
My father used to live near Chicago(Milwaukee specifically) and has family there. I am aware there are many racial issues there. With that said, I see the same problem all over the USA, just in different ways.
. You did mention something about women. The South has a particularly bad history about dealing with black men who date outside of their race. If a black male even looked at a white female, he could be mob-murdered, aka lynched. I actually have a few close friends who are white females. One night I was talking with one of my friends. I was in the car with her and we were going out to eat. The fact that I was a black man hanging out with two white females was lingering in the back of my mind. I mentioned to one of my friends that if it was 50 years ago I could have been lynched for hanging around her. She agreed .
The things that still pervade during our times are shocking. I used to assume, oh well, the Civil Rights movement happened, so we're all equal, la-dee-da.
I had to educate myself on the discrimination against blacks in terms of housing in the 70s (so disgusting and appaling) when I got to college, since my high school education did not prepare me for the reality of the world. I didnt know the truth about poverty on Native AMerican reservations until college either, its sad how ignorant this country keeps it kids, and how indoctrinated we are in our segregation. I remember thinking my town was normal, until I was walking one day near my house in my hometown on break from college. I noticed some black residents in one of the houses/and the yard. I did a doubletake and was disgusted with myself for being so jarred out of reality to notice it. It made me realize that prior to that I had never seen a black resident in my area of town and I had never thought twice about it. It makes me sad that this was not made apparent to me by my teachers in my youth. When I hear from friends the hardships they went through, I am often shocked.
One of my moms friends was denied use of a bathroom after paying for gas at a southern gas station in her youth (the 50s i think) because she wasnt white.
One of my friends- a man born in the 80s mind you- was told by his high school girlfriend that he better get out of sight before her dad spotted her with a black man. This was in ny, and the girl was either hispanic or white. I was shocked - I couldn't believe that sort of behavior happened "in this day and age".
My father used to live near Chicago(Milwaukee specifically) and has family there. I am aware there are many racial issues there. With that said, I see the same problem all over the USA, just in different ways.
Your dad would definitely know better than me, then since he lived there-but I was told there are many wealthy black families in Chicago. There is an interesting book called "Our kind of people" - I visited Chicago and felt much less racial tension than IN philly, ny or dc area - however I did not live there ever plus I'm hispanic/white so thats only my perspective. I was told that blacks have more opportunities in Chicago and Boston than other places - maybe you would like it. Again, honky here so dont judge me for my ignorance.
I just realized that "There are no children here" by kotlowitz is also set in Chicago- but I thought it had changed? Now I'm just confused and determined to read up more and learn more.
Anyhow I just thought you might consider it and possibly like living there?
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