December 2008 Storm --consolidation thread (Seattle, Wenatchee: apartment complexes, buying, luxury)

[mitsuturbo]

Originally Posted by redrum

Interesting article. Something doesn't add up. They won't use salt because it hurts the environment but will use sand, even though that also hurts the environment (how much compared to salt, I don't know, but the fact that it's not used in some cities seems to invalidate the environmental argument and enhance the money-saving aspect).

What's really ironic is that by not salting the roads, they are encouraging people to get vehicles with 4WD/AWD -- which is typically found on bigger, heavier, less fuel efficient vehicles like trucks and SUVs (and is inherently less fuel efficient than 2WD regardless of the vehicle). Brilliant...

I can name quite a few AWD vehicles that aren't heavier or any less fuel efficient. Many volvos are awd, subaru sells a LOT of cars.. they're economical and AWD. Honda has the Element and the CRV, and Toyota has the Matrix which i believes comes in an AWD variant, as does the RAV4. My 91 mitsubishi galant is AWD, but we wont talk about my fuel economy (it's FAR from stock). Many older cars are AWD like the eagle talon and dodge stealth.. there are even honda civics and ford tempos running around with AWD. Audi makes a TON of awd cars, and Suzuki has a few VERY economical AWD offerings. I'll grant you that some vehicles are a bit less fuel efficient than their 2wd counterparts, but in some cases its not even all that significant.

[redrum]

To clarify, I meant that AWD/4WD is inherently less fuel efficient than FWD when used in the same car. This is not debatable, it is a fact -- AWD/4WD increases engine load and adds weight, thus dragging down fuel economy. Try to find one car that gets the same or better gas mileage in AWD/4WD form as it does in 2WD form -- it doesn't exist. The difference varies from model to model, but I never said otherwise. And calling Subarus economical is a real stretch -- they don't have a single model that breaks 30 mpg.

[PG77]

It's pathetic enough that they can't salt the roads once when this happens, the retailers can't even clear their parking lots for customers to get to their stores. Boo hoo on them if their sales go down. It's even more pathetic when apartment complexes can't even salt their sidewalks. Heaven forbid if anyone should fall and hurt themselves. Anyone here heard of the word "lawsuit"?

[seattlenextyear]

Originally Posted by PG77

It's pathetic enough that they can't salt the roads once when this happens, the retailers can't even clear their parking lots for customers to get to their stores. Boo hoo on them if their sales go down. It's even more pathetic when apartment complexes can't even salt their sidewalks. Heaven forbid if anyone should fall and hurt themselves. Anyone here heard of the word "lawsuit"?

I'm glad that they used the local plows to clear the major roads to the nearby hospital instead of clearing out my apartment complex first.

[cobolt]

Originally Posted by PG77

It's pathetic enough that they can't salt the roads once when this happens, the retailers can't even clear their parking lots for customers to get to their stores. Boo hoo on them if their sales go down. It's even more pathetic when apartment complexes can't even salt their sidewalks. Heaven forbid if anyone should fall and hurt themselves. Anyone here heard of the word "lawsuit"?

I had a co worker comment on this very issue today. He was on his way to a mall in West Olympia and he said the main road leading there wasn't even plowed. It was compacted snow of all heights and looked more like the unplowed parking lot across the street with various tiretracks. The traffic into the mall was backed up because of this and he eventually gave up and turned around to go home. He said that the state and city need the money (in the form of sales tax) but if people can't even get out to these places to spend money, then boo hoo.

[seattlenextyear]

Boo hoo, people will just have to walk to local businesses instead of buying some useless plastic thing at Target!

[orangeblossom]

I have no idea except this is very unusual weather. I haven't seen anything like this since 1990. Most people I knew were without power for almost 2 weeks ( but I lived in Port Orchard then). The only reason we had power was that we were living in a camper waiting for our house to be built. My parents got fed up and we ended up staying at the Chieftan Hotel ( if anyone knows where that is then you can laugh about it)

[Jennibc]

Originally Posted by seattlenextyear

Boo hoo, people will just have to walk to local businesses instead of buying some useless plastic thing at Target!

Not all neighborhoods are created equal! We can walk to rite aid or QFC, a whole lotta hair salons, banks, and dentists' offices - not sure that's gonna help with our christmas shopping though

[VeronikaW]

Originally Posted by seattlenextyear

Boo hoo, people will just have to walk to local businesses instead of buying some useless plastic thing at Target!

How wonderful for the people that actually have businesses within walking distance. Not all of us have that luxury.

[mitsuturbo]

Originally Posted by redrum

To clarify, I meant that AWD/4WD is inherently less fuel efficient than FWD when used in the same car. This is not debatable, it is a fact -- AWD/4WD increases engine load and adds weight, thus dragging down fuel economy. Try to find one car that gets the same or better gas mileage in AWD/4WD form as it does in 2WD form -- it doesn't exist. The difference varies from model to model, but I never said otherwise. And calling Subarus economical is a real stretch -- they don't have a single model that breaks 30 mpg.

I HAVE a car that according to factory specs, gets the same fuel economy as its 2wd counterpart. (at least in stock form) The 1990,91, and 92 Mitsubishi Galants are rated at 19/25 (21 combined) at fueleconomy.gov and while i could not find the stats there, i was able to dig up an original window sticker for my AWD Galant VR4 HERE which shows 19/25 also.

So.. nobody else in the history of auto makers has been able to pull this off since the early 90's? It doesn't exist?