Boeing (Seattle, Bellevue, Starbuck: sales, 2009, credit)

[Man_In_Black]

Originally Posted by grastus

Meh. Manufacturing in general has been leaving the US for decades. Also, I doubt they'll be vacating Seattle entirely. When the Big 3 automakers started shifting production elsewhere, they still kept engineering (except for factory-floor-dwelling manufacturing engineers) in Michigan. I'm guessing we'll see the same thing happen with Boeing and Washington.

I just moved to Seattle from Michigan. Do not underestimate the importance of manufacturing jobs on the local economy. Granted, Seattle has MUCH more going for it than anywhere in Michigan, but Michigan is an absolute ghost state now that the manufacturing jobs are gone.

[grastus]

Originally Posted by Man_In_Black

I just moved to Seattle from Michigan. Do not underestimate the importance of manufacturing jobs on the local economy. Granted, Seattle has MUCH more going for it than anywhere in Michigan, but Michigan is an absolute ghost state now that the manufacturing jobs are gone.

Not underestimating the importance of the jobs, just stating commercial airplanes' white collars won't be moving to SC with the blue collar jobs in any sort of significant amount.

[pw72]

This has been coming for years. Boeing will eventually cease building aircraft in the Seattle region. It doesn't make business sense with the union demands. Look at Michigan for a very nice analogy. Only difference is WA is more attractive to many than MI, and that might save us in the long run. However, this could very well set off a chain reaction, (as in Michigan), where more and more companies leave for the same reason. WA is entering into very dangerous economic territory here.

[Jimrob1]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Yep. Very well said. A similar thing sort of happened to Bank Of America. It was purchased though, then it's headquarters was moved from San Francisco to I believe South Carolina as well.

Boeing is like a fixture of Seattle. Can't believe they're leaving.

Bank of America moved its headquarters from San Fran to Charlotte, NC. The Carolinas have been attracting businesses for a number of years now.

I can't say Im surprised SC was able to attract Boeing, but when I think of Boeing I think of Washington state not SC. Its all about money just like everything anymore. Evidiently SC offered some hefty tax incentives to attract Boeing. I think they are headed to No. Charleston, SC.

[SonicsFan93]

Originally Posted by pw72

This has been coming for years. Boeing will eventually cease building aircraft in the Seattle region. It doesn't make business sense with the union demands. Look at Michigan for a very nice analogy. Only difference is WA is more attractive to many than MI, and that might save us in the long run. However, this could very well set off a chain reaction, (as in Michigan), where more and more companies leave for the same reason. WA is entering into very dangerous economic territory here.

I disagree and think you're misinformed.

The issue in Detroit has never been companies leaving. Comerica Bank was the only major company to pick up and leave Detroit. The major problem was that Detroit was so auto manufacturer centric, and when the Big Three started to falter, of course Detroit was going to be in for a world of hurt.

And don't foresee any mass exodus of companies from the Puget Sound region. Why Did Boeing leave? The union. Don't let anybody fool you about the business climate, this was all about the union. Unionization isn't a problem with any other of our major companies. And besides Boeing, companies packing up and leaving hasn't been a major issue in the Seattle area.

The major issue this area has has to do with mergers and acquisitions. We always come out on the short end of the stick in that regard. Look at this list:

Ackerley Group (NYSE:AK) - Purchased by Clear Channel Communications
Airborne Express (NYSE:ABF) - Merged with DHL
Ragen MacKenzie (NYSE:RMG) - Purchased by Wells Fargo
Immunex (Nasdaq:IMNX) - Acquired by Amgen
Safeco Insurance (Nasdaq:SAFC) - Merged with Liberty Mutual
Shurgard Storage Centers (NYSE:SHU) - Merged with Public Storage
Eagle Hardware and Garden (Nasdaq:EAGL) - Acquired by Lowe's
Red Hook Brewery (Nasdaq:HOOK) - Merged with Widmer Brothers

Luckily, we've also been able to gain companies in the past 5-10 years:
Ambassadors International (Nasdaq:AMIE) - Moved from Southern California
Oncothyreon (Nasdaq:ONTY) - Moved from Edmonton, Alberta
Spring Wireless USA - Placed headquarters in Seattle
Omeros (Nasdaq:OMER) - Startup, had IPO
Clearwire (Nasdaq:CLWR) - Startup, had IPO
Isilon Systems (Nasdaq:ISLN)- Startup, had IPO
Marchex (Nasdaq:MCHX) - Startup, had IPO
Mike's Hard Lemonade - Moved from Denver, Colorado
Coastal Hotels Group - Moved from Chicago, Illinois
Seabright Insurance (NYSE:NBX) - Startup, had IPO
Trubion Pharmaceuticals (Nasdaq:TRBN) - Startup, had IPO
Motricity - Moved from Durham, North Carolina

Finally InfrastruX Group (NYSE:IFR) and Symetra Financial (NYSE:SYA) both plan IPO's and plan to list on the New York Stock Exchange.

[pw72]

I don't think I'm misinformed. You can talk about individual companies until the cows come home. (BTW, where is WaMu on your list?) The real issue is jobs, and jobs have been hemorraging from Detroit for the past 35 years. The same thing has begun to happen in Sea, and will most likely continue with the union strength contributing to displace many blue-collar industrial jobs, led by the upcoming Boeing exodus. Please don't forget that Boeing has many suppliers in the region. That is what I meant by chain-reaction. The big difference is Seattle being a more desirable start-up city, and generally a more desirable place to live. Perhaps you missed that part of my post.

[BellevueGuy]

I am actaully also not losing sleep over it. =)

Seattle has moved on from the days of over-dependency on Boeing. The Eastside is probably just a little over-dependent on Microsoft nowadays but they are doing fine-ish.

It looks like Seattle will stay as the center of design & engineering of Boeing in the foreseeable future. It's the blue collar machinist jobs that will be gone as the manufacturing base moves to the South (or China, etc) gradually. And union or not, this process is bound to happen. Of course in this particular case, the union is not helping at all.

Sure it's sad that people who worked in the same company for 20, 30 years... but this is the reality of a globalized world so everyone has to prepare themselves. The government needs to identify a few growth industries and nurture it, e.g. a strong IT VC, talent pool from UW medical school, etc.

[Patron of Wrath]

Originally Posted by BellevueGuy

I am sorry... I am not going to spend time responding to fans of Socialism. And I think we should spend time talking about more constructive ideas like which industries WA can diversify to.

Good course of action. When you don't have an argument, it's best to just dismiss the other person and move on. You should run for Congress, you'd fit right in. You have my vote for sure.

I don't support Socialism, or Communism, or any other 'ism. Prism for example; I am not a supporter. I support effective government [crazy talk, I know]. An effective government focuses more on the effect of it's actions than the label people will assign to it.

Labels have become the defacto weapon used in our political wars, "He's far left, far right, liberal, ultra conservative". If you don't support Obama you are a racist. If you do support him you're a socialist. If you didn't support Bush you weren't a patriot. If you don't support cutting down a tree you are a tree hugging hippy! Don't like your neighbor? That's fine unless they are an inter-racial couple, then you're are a racist, or they are gay, then you are a bigot.

Maybe we can move past this, you and I, starting here? maybe... hold me?

[Flat2MT]

Originally Posted by grastus

Not underestimating the importance of the jobs, just stating commercial airplanes' white collars won't be moving to SC with the blue collar jobs in any sort of significant amount.

Congrats on a great competition between the two states for this assembly line.

I agree that the vast majority of positions will be to satisfy blue collar production requirement. If the Employee Free Choice Act is passed by the administration, then all bets are off as to the benefits of moving an assembly plant to SC.

Here in the lowcountry, they are jumping for joy due to supposed 'enormous' influx of high paying white collar jobs. They hope these individuals will save the huge supply of overpriced homes >$700K in a dead RE market. Lots of speculators are hoping that Boeing is their savior.

Couple that with a huge shadow inventory of foreclosed homes, and you have a classic case of prices having a way to fall much further until market equilibrium is reached. It will be a buyer's market for the next 2-3 years across all price ranges and there is an ample supply of affordable homes <$300K.

So if any of you on this forum are planning to move to SC to fill one of those 'many' white collar jobs at the new plant, recommend you rent for the first couple of years until the dust settles here. If you need to buy, do your homework and don't be afraid to lowball big time.

If an RE agent tells you that it's a great time to buy in Charleston on the higher end price range, don't believe them for one minute. Most sellers are still in a state of denial because they way overpaid during the bubble.

[cobolt]

Originally Posted by JesseJB

Reaganomics, baby.

The businesses start and grow where the workforce is best and most educated. Then the company exploits desperate tax breaks and concessions when they threaten to leave. Then said company moves to where the labor is cheaper, non-unionized and dumber anyways. Then the company goes overseas.
As long as we keep growing startups here, we'l be fine. But Boeing is a huge company...

It's naive to think that there is a lack of educated and skilled workers outside of WA state, or becauase a state has a lower cost of living and therefore lower wages, that these people will do less of a good job or that quality will suffer outside of WA. THe truth of the matter is that we operate in a global economy, that Boeing although based in the US is an international operation that must compete internationally, and that there are skilled workforces outside of this state and this country that turn out good producs. $16 an hour is pretty good money in SC and they have a skilled and educated workforce. The facility that Boeing will be using used to be an active duty and then a reserve Air Force base that was closed due to BRAC. There were many govt and defense contracting positions there and it was, at one time, the logistics hub of the SE before much of those operations and personnel moved to Tinker AFB (Oklahoma).

The problem IS that WA state only has start up headquarters (Starbucks, Costco, Microsoft) but can't attract other businesses to move their headquarters here. There is a reason Boeing moved their HQ to Chicago years ago and is, in stages, moving from WA. There is a reason businesses are NOT moving to WA state. And there is a reason that Texas leads the nation in business start ups and many companies are relocating there, and to other Southern states. Certainly not all the workforce in Texas is undeducated, nor are they in these other states. I know, I've lived and worked there. Until WA state gets off the "high superior elite" horse and faces the fact that companies will respond to incentives instead of punishment, then the exodus will continue.