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Old 02-06-2011, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Northern NH
4,550 posts, read 11,663,184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
Not where I'm at, I've built a cabin during the winter, and normally spend 2 weeks/year gathering prepping and storing wood for the winter. The Water freezes, but if you drill a 1/16" pilot hole in the pipe leading from your well to your storage tank (and a float valve that controls the pump) the well won't freeze up, and you keep your storage tank in a heated area. Besides you can always melt snow and river ice at the worst case.

It's just necessary to adjust to any of the more extreme climates, which is why you can't just bug out there with a high probability of success.
You also need a home that is far warmer than anything in a southern climate. You also need to get to te river ice which right now I have snow up to my waist and getting to a river could be a challenge. If roads aren't being plowed travel is going to be near impossible unless you happen to have a huge hummer and having the fuel might be an issue. Sub zero temps are so so much harder to live in than 70, 80 degrees. In the warmer climates you could literally live in a tent which maybe some could do in frozen areas, but, it clearly is a very poor option.
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Old 02-06-2011, 03:29 PM
 
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I'm having Kansas in mind. Very low population density and very remote so it will survive the initial unrest. Not in a disaster prone area. If it's properly organized plenty of food can be harvested and stored. Not sure about water resources and wildlife though. Just don't expect to be first in line when help comes from overseas.
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Old 02-06-2011, 03:35 PM
 
Location: A Nation Possessed
25,305 posts, read 18,463,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aptor hours View Post
You also need a home that is far warmer than anything in a southern climate. You also need to get to te river ice which right now I have snow up to my waist and getting to a river could be a challenge. If roads aren't being plowed travel is going to be near impossible unless you happen to have a huge hummer and having the fuel might be an issue. Sub zero temps are so so much harder to live in than 70, 80 degrees. In the warmer climates you could literally live in a tent which maybe some could do in frozen areas, but, it clearly is a very poor option.
I can agree with you to a point. But it's also going to vary from person to person. I'd much rather face 20 degrees than 90 degrees with 100% humidity, hands down. I actually spent several weeks in south Louisiana some years ago in July. Never again. Simply walking outside caused a torrent of sweat. By the time I left, I thought I was going to start growing fungus due to being damp or sopping wet 24/7.

The thing is, if it's really cold, I can put on more clothing; if it's really hot, there's nothing I can do about it (I'm talking about while trying to lead a "normal" outdoor-oriented life). Another thing is that I really dislike air conditioning--it's hard on the body (100 degree to 70 degree back and forth all day) and it's damned expensive.

I'll take cold winters and cool summers every time, even though that may make it harder in certain ways. As for Florida, south Louisiana, Texas, Mississippi, Georgia, Alabama... it's hard to be self-sufficient if you're in intensive care for heat stroke (which is where I would be). I've never gotten "cold stroke" yet!
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Old 02-06-2011, 04:26 PM
 
19,023 posts, read 25,884,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aptor hours View Post
You also need a home that is far warmer than anything in a southern climate. You also need to get to te river ice which right now I have snow up to my waist and getting to a river could be a challenge. If roads aren't being plowed travel is going to be near impossible unless you happen to have a huge hummer and having the fuel might be an issue. Sub zero temps are so so much harder to live in than 70, 80 degrees. In the warmer climates you could literally live in a tent which maybe some could do in frozen areas, but, it clearly is a very poor option.

LOL, Gun lives in a tent, in Ak and has for 2 winters unless that cabin is all done. I lived in a tent here in NH, when that winter was noted as one of the most harsh in recored history. I had all the water any one could want too, free for the taking and with a bucket.

My wife wasn't my wife then, but she and I took lots of showers naked before the eyes of God at -20 below 0, using apx 5 gallons of water, we hauled, heated and showered standing on a few boards under a tree with no walls any where. The saving grace is Hot water.
In winter you can store frozen foods easy, but you must heat water and put it in jugs too keep a cooler warmer for many foods uses in the instant. Rock hard milk is no good if you can get any, see?

Just getting dressed here camped out in dead winter has a right way and a wrong way. The difference is death.
In SHTF NOTHING is like it was.. Nothing comes easy.

Now I know how to live off the land, and I don't plan to bug out a bit. but if i were going to bug out and try to live off the land I would go the southern tier of NY and or upper nor west Pa for the fresh waters, loads of little white tail deer, and the milder climate.

All the time I hear people say in shtf they will come here to NH. That might be, but then tha'rs a very good chance any I find will work for me.

STHF is anything goes. No more laws, no more anything you knew unless maybe you are expert in the old ways.

No one says you will be able to trade, and there will be lots of predators.

Now I will feen a few people one time, but one time only and then if they come back they will belong to me no matter what they think.

Or they can just plain up and leave if they can.

There is nothing here in NH to run to, unless you have something in NH right now.

Winter isn't the problem. Mind sets are.

Todays average joe, has no skills and soft hands, and is of al most no use to me me.

People who measure time in terms of pretend money have no real idea of time. You can't help it, but you were brought up that way, but that way is all based on pretend, and there have been no lessons in living off the land.

I can't support a lot of people myself in terms of SHTF. And i don't plan too. I won't need or want to trade, not even labor, so what is anyone in need coming to me represt, LOSS, that's all.

Most people today can't live off the land, and if stores are closed, gas stations are closed you can't get fuel or foods.

What skill sets are can't be learned in SHTF you need them learned long before.

It's a good bet in SHTF I can sell fire for gold coins. Man needs fire a lot more than he needs a gold coin, but I have my faults and I like trinkets that shine.

In SHTF you are not going to be able to call a nice Policeman, first off he won't work for money that is worthless, and then he can't live off the land either, so he will be home pissin off his wife to cook something, just like everyone else with out a clue.

SHTF isn't no electricity for 21 days. It's no electricity for a very long time unless YOU can make it, and then you have to keep it and everything else you have.

Bugging out is a very bad plan, unless you bug out long before the day you needed too.

I have camps all over the state of NH at this point, none easy to get to, none easy for others to find now.

I don't really plan to use these unless I can't keep what I have here as I have it.

Basicly bugging out is arm chair folly, unless you already have skill sets that allow you to do that.

If you think you do, go make fire with no modern tools of any kind.

Don't count on a book education for that.
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Old 02-06-2011, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,270 posts, read 61,020,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
I didn't know about the owner/builder breaks. This is not the case in North Dakota, as far as I can tell. And it is pretty important to me, since I am interested in building traditionally and very small. I'll have to look into that.
If you build with a 'permanent' foundation you will require a permit. But if you build a 'camp' [a structure on blocks, skids, or piers] you require no permit.

Most of Maine is Unorganized Townships [UTs], these are towns that may have once been organized but decided to burn their charter at some point [like mine did], or they may be townships that have never been populated heavy enough to see any need for a mayor, tax collector and town clerk.

The UTs form most of Maine. They have no local government, no municipal services, no building inspectors, and lower taxes.



Quote:
... I have a chance to buy a 12 acre plot of land near Presque Isle for around $18,000. That seems like a pretty good price, especially considering I couldn't get a quarter acre around here for that. It's a mix of former potato farm and wooded ground. It's been keeping me up at night. It would take me quite a while to pay for, but it could certainly be worth it to me, considering my future plans.
The smaller they chop up land the higher the price per acre.

You can buy 40 acres or more for as low as $300/acre. But as land gets chopped up into smaller parcels the price goes up. 12-acres can go for anywhere from $10k to $20k.

Maine has had a depressed economy for many decades. If you come from an area that has at some point seen a thriving economy, you may easily be fooled.

The average household income in Maine is $24k. No recession, no national housing bubble, nothing this is our local economy. Families raise their children and 'thrive' on lower incomes here.



Quote:
... Yes, there are some really stupid (in my opinion) and territorial water laws around here. Seems like in some areas you could be arrested for letting a raindrop fall into your mouth.

I assume that there isn't really a need for irrigation for the most part in Maine??? That's a bit foreign to me (living out west) because here, if the crops aren't flooded with irrigation water every couple of weeks... well, they won't be there for long.
Yes the majority of the USA is drought-prone.
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Old 02-06-2011, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Itinerant
8,278 posts, read 6,240,327 times
Reputation: 6681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aptor hours View Post
You also need a home that is far warmer than anything in a southern climate. You also need to get to te river ice which right now I have snow up to my waist and getting to a river could be a challenge. If roads aren't being plowed travel is going to be near impossible unless you happen to have a huge hummer and having the fuel might be an issue. Sub zero temps are so so much harder to live in than 70, 80 degrees. In the warmer climates you could literally live in a tent which maybe some could do in frozen areas, but, it clearly is a very poor option.
Yup, R40 in the walls, and R60+ in the floors and ceilings, takes us to about 2.5 cords of wood a year. Other than that materials wise it's more or less the same as any stick built house (minus the pylons to keep it off the ground to minimize any permafrost thawing and heaving).

If the snow is up to your waist, you need a bucket for the snow, just don't take the yellow snow... and boil it well. Why would you go to the river? Now traversing that snow you need snowshoes or ski's so you don't need to plow through it.

I'm also with Chris on the temps, I can easily deal with -40F but can't begin to deal with 100F and 90% humidity. Living in a tent is something I've done (for an entire year while building), even here, you just need to be prepared for it.

Yes it is a poor option which is why I've been saying that Alaska is not a very effective BOL for everyone. Unless they're already Alaskan.
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Old 02-06-2011, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,270 posts, read 61,020,454 times
Reputation: 30164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aptor hours View Post
You also need a home that is far warmer than anything in a southern climate. You also need to get to te river ice which right now I have snow up to my waist and getting to a river could be a challenge. If roads aren't being plowed travel is going to be near impossible unless you happen to have a huge hummer and having the fuel might be an issue. Sub zero temps are so so much harder to live in than 70, 80 degrees. In the warmer climates you could literally live in a tent which maybe some could do in frozen areas, but, it clearly is a very poor option.
Wow, must be really hard to get by in your area.

Around here roads get plowed. Many homes have either their own plow-truck or a tractor, and they help neighbors.

Deep snow an issue? snow shoes work great!

Wool clothing and well-insulated homes make living in this area, pretty nice

You take care, now.
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Old 02-06-2011, 04:51 PM
 
19,023 posts, read 25,884,831 times
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Gun Yeah her snow is waist deep so is mine. We don't live but 30 miles the way the crow flies from each other. There is plenty of good water here, all water free for the taking with a bucket, some to a road via a pipe.

No need here to spend wood to make water from snow, and then have mineral free water which ain't all that hot either.
Her best bet in SHTF is that very bucket, from a Mt river probably just out back a few hunderd feet. She really should have me come do an assessment in late Spring
She has no idea you idea of a warm house and you idea of a warm hose is two differet things by a long shot. Most people just have no idea.

If the shtf, they will find out what used to be a cookie cutter warm house is nothing more than a box that is colder inside than it is outside on a very cold day.

Your tent or mine is as cold inside as it is out side, but not colder, with no fire. Add a fire and your tent and or mine would be toasty by the fire, not not for more than about 8 feet from it.

In the tee pee I did have a cracked wood stove and a fire and the wood stove was the reflector for the open fire. That wood stove sort of saved coals for moring too, buried in the ashes.

Hell that was a cheap junk pot bellie stove all cracked, no air tight rig. I used 4 feet of smoke stack.

I bet you bank up snow on the cabin right? Unless there is a law.....
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Old 02-06-2011, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Itinerant
8,278 posts, read 6,240,327 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_Muz View Post

I bet you bank up snow on the cabin right? Unless there is a law.....
No law there's one code restriction where I'm at, your well has to be a minimum of 100' away and uphill from your crapper (which is kind of common sense), that covers it.
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Old 02-06-2011, 05:51 PM
 
19,023 posts, read 25,884,831 times
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Yeah that's common sence... You still got that in Ak huh? Not much common about common sence down in the 48.

I was guessing banking up is good for you, but maybe bad for permafrost.

So its cool to kill them little poor permafrosts off with wild abandon?

Down here these PETA people are hell on poor naugha's.
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