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Old 05-12-2011, 10:03 AM
 
Location: FROM Dixie, but IN SoCal
3,110 posts, read 2,291,351 times
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One more thing about the "puny" .22 Long Rifle bullets. In a series of tests for Kevlar vests, the .22 Long Rifle round fired from a handgun came much closer to complete penetration than did any other pistol round. That included the .38 Special, the .357 Magnum, the .44 Special, the .44 Magnum, the 9mm and the .45acp.

Note that these test-vests did not include the plate inserts.
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Old 05-12-2011, 10:54 AM
 
19,115 posts, read 10,986,152 times
Reputation: 7104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug S. 123 View Post
oh, yeah, I know lol. Really just little p-shooters but hey, better than nothing. I usually keep atleast 1000 rounds of .22 ammo at any given time, try to keep more than that. I always keep 20 rounds for my 25.06, and I forgot to mention my 30-30, I keep 20-40 rounds for that as well.


P.S.

any of you ever heard of the taurus judge? .45 410 combo revolver. Do you think it would be a good defense gun?
That is a pitance of ammo to have around too......

The Tarus hasn't got the best rep either.

The only rnds I don't keep over 1,000 are shot shells for a 12 Ga, but I have bags of lead, primers and wads, and can make more than that in a time.

I don't consider my guns as any arsenal either.

In addition, I have several flintlocks, all historical clones of real flinters, nothing you can buy in a Cabela's or Big Bass Pro shop. I have hunted with these starting around 1972, and find I like the way they work in all weathers just fine. Of course i wouldn't want any of them in a SD possition, but know the use of them can save me modern ammo which could be expensive and or harder to come by.

I plan to get another flintlock rifle to match the bore of my Nor' West Gun, which shoots a 0.600 round ball. The Nor' West Gun is a smooth bore made to shoot shot, and or ball, and or buck n ball.

I have a replica of a Brown Bess in 0.735 too, and cast for both of these.

At this time I also have a little .40 cal pea shooter in flint, and a TC Hawken cap lock I would like to trade on the next flint rifle. The TC has never been fired once. That would leave me with just 2 cap lock guns, both six shooters, and the only reason to have cap lock guns is to have them be 6 shooters, to me.

I admitt I am a odd duck out, no problem there. But I can do a lot more with a good flint gun than I can with any other kind of gun, except in Self Defence. On the other hand I ponder the idea of pointing my .60 cal flint pistol in the face of a real bad guy. I never would in reality, but I sure would like to see the facial expressions.

I suppose a picture is in order for that.
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Old 05-12-2011, 02:44 PM
Status: "Are you a technophiliac zombie?" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
6,666 posts, read 5,376,895 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug S. 123 View Post
any of you ever heard of the taurus judge? .45 410 combo revolver. Do you think it would be a good defense gun?
My father has one. He loves it. I'm considering trading a guy for one too. I'm not sure why the bad publicity. All I can say is I certainly wouldn't want to be on the business end of one! Pretty mean pistol. Certainly does the job...
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Old 05-12-2011, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Ohio
8,614 posts, read 3,756,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Themanwithnoname View Post
The Box O' Truth - Educational Zone


He did a test... in short, NO.
Thanks for the link, pretty informative. Seems like it may be ok for hunting when using 410, but the .45 would be great for the self defense part of it, atleast at a somwhat close range
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Old 05-12-2011, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Alaska
2,218 posts, read 1,360,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug S. 123 View Post
but the .45 would be great for the self defense part of it, atleast at a somwhat close range
If it isn't close range it likely isn't self defense, if we're talking post SHTF, you'd want a rifle anyway.
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Old 05-12-2011, 06:31 PM
 
19,115 posts, read 10,986,152 times
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That .410 is for snakes in such a short barrel, and I don't mean 2 legged snakes. The wheel (chambers) is too long for a slug to fly and slam into the forcing cone to stabalize the slug as .45 Colt, which will strip the slug, and lead up the bore, as I hear it. I sort of know it, because i understand some balistics, while I have never owned a Judge.

If these are new and not used a great deal, they can work a while, no doubt, but won't stand the tests of time with hard use.

This is a tool, and like most tools trying to be good at one thing is doable, trying to be good at 2 things usually isn't a good idea.

The wheel is overly long for slugs and the rifleing kills the shot pattern at any distance.

With that said you won't find me standing on the wrong end of one.

I suggest researching such a thing on gun boards, with men who know more than me, and have either owned of fired these guns for thousands of rnds.

At one time I entertained owning one and chose not too.
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Old 05-13-2011, 10:49 AM
 
645 posts, read 567,568 times
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Whether a firearm is for a survival kit designed for a short-term crisis or one that’s going to last for years, I think that we need to remain practical and stop considering ridiculous niche specific cool all the rage weapons. Moreover, we need to consider a person’s skill level, familiarity with firearms, and the like because guns are not backwards compatible.

When considering a firearm for a survival kit, I would recommend a 12 gauge shotgun with an 18” barrel and a five or six shot capacity. If I could only have one firearm, I’d make mine a scattergun. When talking about shotguns, I’m speaking about something along the lines of a Maverick 88. 88 Security A 12-gauge shotgun is without a doubt the most versatile weapon known to man. It can be used on targets as small as doves to rather large black bears, and everything in between with great effect. It has mild to little recoil, save for magnum loads, which aren’t really necessary, and it’s the easiest of real practical firearms to master. Nothing’s more menacing than dead silence rudely interrupted by the racking of a round into a pump action shotgun. It’s also quite menacing in appearance, and in a home defense situation, it provides the most lethal stopping power without penetrating every wall in the house. Additionally. Please keep your single shotgun practical. Don’t get caught up in trendy fads like folding stocks, pistol grips, and the like that will only turn a useful and versitle 12 gauge into a niche specific piece of junk that’s very unpleasant and inaccurate to shoot.

After that, I’d recommend for the novice and pro alike a double action/single action 38-wheel gun with a 4-inch barrel. Again, revolvers require less time to become proficient with. They’re the simplest of actions save for a single shot, and therefore require much less training to master. It should be carried at all times along with the shotgun, and this is solely a back up weapon.

I would get a simple reloading press, dies, and bullet/buckshot molds, as well as 4 to 6lbs gun powder, lead for casting bullets/shot, primers, brass/hulls, and the two weapons that I’ve just mentioned use very little powder, operate at low CUP pressure, and therefore the brass/hulls will last for dozens and dozens of firings. Once fired 12-gauge hulls and .38 brass can be had for a very small price. Both calibers are capable of using the same powder as well. A single stage press is more than enough, and they’re cheap. In other words, for a small investment, one can reload these two calibers rather cheaply. It would be nothing to keep 100 rounds on hand for both firearms, and those 100 rounds could be reloaded several times.

Anything beyond this is redundant, but I’d stay away from assault weapons, and all those fancy things that have become all the rage due to Hollywood, anti gunners, and the like that have made them extremely popular over the years. If you’re dealing with that many threats that you need a rifle that has a 30 rd capacity and several more 30 rd clips, you most likely do not have the proper special forces military training to survive a 20 or 30 to one scenario, and you’re going to die.

I’m surprised that it took somebody practical and capable of some real foresight to bring up matchlock, flintlock, and percussion firearms. Mac_Muz showed some real insight there, and he covered that area fairly well.

I’d only like to further Mac’s practicality for the long haul by adding a decent recurve bow. Notice I said recurve bow. Not cross bow, not compound bow, but recruve bow. I’d suggest something around 45 – 60 pounds. If you can’t shoot a 60# bow all day comfortably, find a lighter weight draw until you’re comfortable with it, but don’t go below 45#. It doesn’t need all sorts of fancy sights, and one can be had at yard sales or gun shows rather cheaply. In a pinch, making your own arrows cheaply is a real possibility. Youtube’s full of videos on it.


To the survivalists, without a good potable water supply, you won't last long at all. Stockpiling food isn't what I'd consider a sustained survival plan either. One will need a sustainable food supply, and a backyard garden isn't going to cut it, so without getting into great amounts of detail, when planning a survial kit, we should be talking about short term, i.e. less than a month. Beyond that, it's going to take some real practical planning, and one could easily write a 5,000 word essay on it, but only cover the basics.
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Old 05-13-2011, 05:57 PM
 
19,115 posts, read 10,986,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bolillo_loco View Post
Whether a firearm is for a survival kit designed for a short-term crisis or one that’s going to last for years, I think that we need to remain practical and stop considering ridiculous niche specific cool all the rage weapons. Moreover, we need to consider a person’s skill level, familiarity with firearms, and the like because guns are not backwards compatible.

When considering a firearm for a survival kit, I would recommend a 12 gauge shotgun with an 18” barrel and a five or six shot capacity. If I could only have one firearm, I’d make mine a scattergun. When talking about shotguns, I’m speaking about something along the lines of a Maverick 88. 88 Security A 12-gauge shotgun is without a doubt the most versatile weapon known to man. It can be used on targets as small as doves to rather large black bears, and everything in between with great effect. It has mild to little recoil, save for magnum loads, which aren’t really necessary, and it’s the easiest of real practical firearms to master. Nothing’s more menacing than dead silence rudely interrupted by the racking of a round into a pump action shotgun. It’s also quite menacing in appearance, and in a home defense situation, it provides the most lethal stopping power without penetrating every wall in the house. Additionally. Please keep your single shotgun practical. Don’t get caught up in trendy fads like folding stocks, pistol grips, and the like that will only turn a useful and versitle 12 gauge into a niche specific piece of junk that’s very unpleasant and inaccurate to shoot.

After that, I’d recommend for the novice and pro alike a double action/single action 38-wheel gun with a 4-inch barrel. Again, revolvers require less time to become proficient with. They’re the simplest of actions save for a single shot, and therefore require much less training to master. It should be carried at all times along with the shotgun, and this is solely a back up weapon.

I would get a simple reloading press, dies, and bullet/buckshot molds, as well as 4 to 6lbs gun powder, lead for casting bullets/shot, primers, brass/hulls, and the two weapons that I’ve just mentioned use very little powder, operate at low CUP pressure, and therefore the brass/hulls will last for dozens and dozens of firings. Once fired 12-gauge hulls and .38 brass can be had for a very small price. Both calibers are capable of using the same powder as well. A single stage press is more than enough, and they’re cheap. In other words, for a small investment, one can reload these two calibers rather cheaply. It would be nothing to keep 100 rounds on hand for both firearms, and those 100 rounds could be reloaded several times.

Anything beyond this is redundant, but I’d stay away from assault weapons, and all those fancy things that have become all the rage due to Hollywood, anti gunners, and the like that have made them extremely popular over the years. If you’re dealing with that many threats that you need a rifle that has a 30 rd capacity and several more 30 rd clips, you most likely do not have the proper special forces military training to survive a 20 or 30 to one scenario, and you’re going to die.

I’m surprised that it took somebody practical and capable of some real foresight to bring up matchlock, flintlock, and percussion firearms. Mac_Muz showed some real insight there, and he covered that area fairly well.

I’d only like to further Mac’s practicality for the long haul by adding a decent recurve bow. Notice I said recurve bow. Not cross bow, not compound bow, but recruve bow. I’d suggest something around 45 – 60 pounds. If you can’t shoot a 60# bow all day comfortably, find a lighter weight draw until you’re comfortable with it, but don’t go below 45#. It doesn’t need all sorts of fancy sights, and one can be had at yard sales or gun shows rather cheaply. In a pinch, making your own arrows cheaply is a real possibility. Youtube’s full of videos on it.


To the survivalists, without a good potable water supply, you won't last long at all. Stockpiling food isn't what I'd consider a sustained survival plan either. One will need a sustainable food supply, and a backyard garden isn't going to cut it, so without getting into great amounts of detail, when planning a survial kit, we should be talking about short term, i.e. less than a month. Beyond that, it's going to take some real practical planning, and one could easily write a 5,000 word essay on it, but only cover the basics.

Not bad not bad at all..... I would change 18 inch to 18 and 1/4 inch though.... That silly law thing ya know? Any cop can scrap a 12 ga on the pavement and make it 17 and 15/16th" easy......

I make my own long bows from white ash trees.. These are not very powerfull, since my collar bone floats from a bad mc crash. If I pull a bow over so many pounds I tend to fold in half we can't have everything..

Why I prefer flinters to most any hunting only gun is you get that one shot one kill thing down or you go hungery. Also if you have the gun, you have tools. Even then if you lost every knife the flint will still cut to skin and gut game.

With the gun fully loaded it is still possible to use the lock to make fire, with 0 rish of a discharge. With the right know how a good flinter is water proof , and to the point a loaded gun, loaded just right can soak in a pond over night and still go BOOM on demand.

If that's not enough and water is a problem say down in a riocky crevice, you can yank the barrel and use the ram rod and a patched jag to pump water up and out.

I also have a 2 tied fork for one of my rock locks which i can roast a deer steak on. However this can take time and practice to master.

I can make 1/2 pound increments of black power at a time, but so far none has been of Swiss Quaility, a little problem I am still working on. What I make is nearly as good as GOEX FFFg 3 Fg...

'IF' I can master that skill, I will have completed a goal, and a full circle of life. There will be no reason to ever suffer hunger, and maybe SD if a rock lock can be even considered a SD gun. I don't, but then I can conserve modern ammo.

Most folks would say i was nuts... I'ld say I am freer than most.

OT: I also make and run bow drills for fire, and even drilling holes in things. I can do on line mini lesson, if that floats yer stick any.
Thank You.... mac
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Old 05-13-2011, 07:45 PM
 
Location: Ohio
8,614 posts, read 3,756,753 times
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Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
If it isn't close range it likely isn't self defense, if we're talking post SHTF, you'd want a rifle anyway.
I know this is gonna make me sound dumb, but could somone please tell me what SHTF means?
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Old 05-13-2011, 08:02 PM
 
645 posts, read 567,568 times
Reputation: 1714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug S. 123 View Post
I know this is gonna make me sound dumb, but could somone please tell me what SHTF means?
This is only a guess, but I'd say due to the context, it means Shiat Hits The Fan...
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