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Old 08-04-2011, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Cody, WY
10,420 posts, read 14,560,595 times
Reputation: 22017

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
This all sounds like Ford vs Chevy to me. Any volunteers to play "bad guy" and enter a home in which the occupant is armed with a shotgun? How about a rifle? A handgun? Or even a Springfield 1873? I'll pass on all four accounts. Pulling a trigger is not rocket science. I'd be just as dead with a 45-70 through my chest or several 00's as I would a fancy-shmancy 9mm.

It's Ford vs Chevy for people whose experience is limited to Matchbox. not only the people posting here, but all of their heroes from the gunstore owner who tells them what to carry (and what carries the biggest profit margins for him) to the exhibition shooters who resemble a ballet troupe more than anything else.

Reading The Armed Citizen which has appeared for years in the American Rifleman quickly dispels the notion of the practiced and skilled warrior just waiting for his chance. Rather, it's a bunch of ordinary folks who carry guns or keep them in their homes or places of business.

As far as the military and police are concerned, remember the dopes from high school?
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Old 08-04-2011, 04:04 PM
 
645 posts, read 1,273,682 times
Reputation: 1782
12 Gauge 00 buckshot myths and facts:

This has been my experience with teaching people, especially small women, how to properly shoot a 00 buckshot from a 12 gauge.

I’ve seen it countless times at the range. Some man wants his girlfriend to shoot a hard kicking 12 gauge. He loads it with 3” 00 or 000 buckshot, and then he never shows her how to stand, hold the firearm, or to firmly put her cheek on the stock. This may sound rude, but I generally intervene before she gets a chance to be knocked back and or bruised. I do it for two reasons, first, it’s not safe, and secondly, how’s somebody supposed to potentially become a firearms enthusiast if they’re getting hurt and not having fun?

It’s been my experience that most people unfamiliar with shooting do not stand properly. They lean back and have their shoulders behind their center of gravity. When standing like this, a simple two-fingered light shove will generally make even the largest man take a step backwards because his weight is already got him unbalanced. If somebody’s shown how to properly stand with feet shoulder width apart and leaning slightly forward, as well as having the butt stock firmly pressed into their shoulder, and here’s a critical part of learning how to shoot long arms, your cheek must be firmly pressed against the stock so the head recoils with the firearm. That’s by no means a complete rundown of how to properly shoot, but it does give one the basic idea of what I’m talking about.

Once those simple basics are shown to new shooters, it’s been my experience that even dainty women can shoot 12 gauge 00 2 ¾ buckshot. My ex-wife had no problem handling a 12 gauge with non-magnum loads of 00 buckshot. She was 5’4” tall, 112lbs and had a 22 inch waist, so she wasn’t exactly a butchy woman.

3” magnum versus 2 ¾ versus 2 ¾ reduced recoil 00 buckshot:

There’s no real reason for the magnum loads in a home defense situation. The reduced recoil is fine. It’s more than enough to be a one stop shot of even the largest man. Moreover, in the home, range isn’t an issue, so magnum loads are for people that suffer from morephenism. They think that more is better. “More bigger is more better” dah har… This type generally has to have AR 15s with 90 round drum magazines and all the latest greatest gadgets known to man. It’s simply not necessary. I see a lot of people getting caught up in all sorts of trendy junk. Shotguns with pistol grips, no butt stock, and military style fore grips make shotguns inaccurate, unpleasant to carry and shoot pieces of junk that look cool on camera.

Hence, this brings us full circle back to the best home defense firearm. It’s a 12 gauge loaded with 00 buckshot. It’s the cheapest and easiest firearm to purchase and become proficient with. Brand new, a Plain Jane pump action riot shotgun that can be had for slightly more than 200 dollars. With non magnum 00 buckshot and reduced recoil 00 buckshot, I’ve seen plenty of 110 – 120 lb women shoot boxes of ammo through them without getting knocked all over the place.

Rifles generally have too much penetration for home defense.
Pistols generally are exponentially more expensive and are the hardest firearm to master and maintain proficiency with. This is especially true for semi-autos. Moreover, pistol bullets do not generally kill people out right. They kill exactly like cutting weapons do. They rupture veins, arteries, and puncture lungs, thus they take a while to kill somebody. That’s why double and triple tap are taught to military, police, and self-defense personnel.

Additionally, just the racking of a 12 gauge is very intimidating. Even people that have never even seen a real 12 gauge pump action shotgun in person know what they sound like. It’s been used in plenty of movies and video games, so the average person knows that some big gun just chambered a round because it’s loud, distinctive, and generally intimidating.
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Old 08-05-2011, 10:14 AM
 
19,023 posts, read 25,917,807 times
Reputation: 7365
There sure is a lot of pat'ridge r'ound yeha' that don't know how UN- deadly a shot gun is. I have a real 'bad rep' with them.

They must be able to communicate somehow en-mass, because now goin' on 30 years they have been attacking me. I have more than several eye witness, but one was special

This one garage man I know and I, were standing in his garage (semi commercial)
I was telling of the times I have been attacked in my person to him .

It wasn't particularly odd that he looked at the ceiling like Obama does, and rolled his eyes, trying to not bust a grin and laugh, a bit.

Everyone I tell of the tails does that, and they all try to be polite while I tell it. Not many of them probably even belive it, but i swear it's true.

Anyway, I was telling of many different incidents, twice on the mountin, and twice with the same 2 witness, another several times more, with my wife as the witness, another with a x bro in law, and more when I was alone.

The garage man did a lot of looking up, just like Obama does.

Well.............................................. ............. Doncha' know all of a sudden that is, the sound of shattering glass, and WHAT crashes at my feet? Nuthin but a genuine Great Nawth Merican Man Eattin' Patrdige that's WHAT!

The garage man stopped lookin up, and stopped looking so silly doing it too! One more witness.

BTW that bird wasn't harmed a bit. I picked it up, took it outside and gave it a little toss into the wind. If flew away, but I know it's still out there waiting........
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Old 08-05-2011, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Blah
4,153 posts, read 9,247,538 times
Reputation: 3092
Quote:
Originally Posted by bolillo_loco View Post
12 Gauge 00 buckshot myths and facts:

This has been my experience with teaching people, especially small women, how to properly shoot a 00 buckshot from a 12 gauge.

I’ve seen it countless times at the range. Some man wants his girlfriend to shoot a hard kicking 12 gauge. He loads it with 3” 00 or 000 buckshot, and then he never shows her how to stand, hold the firearm, or to firmly put her cheek on the stock. This may sound rude, but I generally intervene before she gets a chance to be knocked back and or bruised. I do it for two reasons, first, it’s not safe, and secondly, how’s somebody supposed to potentially become a firearms enthusiast if they’re getting hurt and not having fun?

It’s been my experience that most people unfamiliar with shooting do not stand properly. They lean back and have their shoulders behind their center of gravity. When standing like this, a simple two-fingered light shove will generally make even the largest man take a step backwards because his weight is already got him unbalanced. If somebody’s shown how to properly stand with feet shoulder width apart and leaning slightly forward, as well as having the butt stock firmly pressed into their shoulder, and here’s a critical part of learning how to shoot long arms, your cheek must be firmly pressed against the stock so the head recoils with the firearm. That’s by no means a complete rundown of how to properly shoot, but it does give one the basic idea of what I’m talking about.

Once those simple basics are shown to new shooters, it’s been my experience that even dainty women can shoot 12 gauge 00 2 ¾ buckshot. My ex-wife had no problem handling a 12 gauge with non-magnum loads of 00 buckshot. She was 5’4” tall, 112lbs and had a 22 inch waist, so she wasn’t exactly a butchy woman.

3” magnum versus 2 ¾ versus 2 ¾ reduced recoil 00 buckshot:

There’s no real reason for the magnum loads in a home defense situation. The reduced recoil is fine. It’s more than enough to be a one stop shot of even the largest man. Moreover, in the home, range isn’t an issue, so magnum loads are for people that suffer from morephenism. They think that more is better. “More bigger is more better” dah har… This type generally has to have AR 15s with 90 round drum magazines and all the latest greatest gadgets known to man. It’s simply not necessary. I see a lot of people getting caught up in all sorts of trendy junk. Shotguns with pistol grips, no butt stock, and military style fore grips make shotguns inaccurate, unpleasant to carry and shoot pieces of junk that look cool on camera.

Hence, this brings us full circle back to the best home defense firearm. It’s a 12 gauge loaded with 00 buckshot. It’s the cheapest and easiest firearm to purchase and become proficient with. Brand new, a Plain Jane pump action riot shotgun that can be had for slightly more than 200 dollars. With non magnum 00 buckshot and reduced recoil 00 buckshot, I’ve seen plenty of 110 – 120 lb women shoot boxes of ammo through them without getting knocked all over the place.

Rifles generally have too much penetration for home defense.
Pistols generally are exponentially more expensive and are the hardest firearm to master and maintain proficiency with. This is especially true for semi-autos. Moreover, pistol bullets do not generally kill people out right. They kill exactly like cutting weapons do. They rupture veins, arteries, and puncture lungs, thus they take a while to kill somebody. That’s why double and triple tap are taught to military, police, and self-defense personnel.

Additionally, just the racking of a 12 gauge is very intimidating. Even people that have never even seen a real 12 gauge pump action shotgun in person know what they sound like. It’s been used in plenty of movies and video games, so the average person knows that some big gun just chambered a round because it’s loud, distinctive, and generally intimidating.

Well said...I mean typed.
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Old 08-07-2011, 03:19 PM
 
191 posts, read 180,475 times
Reputation: 46
I've read Armed Citizen for over 40 years now, and never once saw a case where the guy did it right. Luck was their savior. do you REALLY think that the NRA is going to publish the cases where the gun FAILED to defend the people, or where the gun user got locked up for numerous years ? :-) Many, many people have no IDEA what racking a pump action sounds like, dudes. To me, it sounds like someone was too stupid to have a round already chambered. the main problem with longarms is people won't HAVE them when needed. Indeed, people are too lazy to ccw a pistol around their homes, too.

Last edited by giney12; 08-07-2011 at 03:28 PM..
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Old 08-11-2011, 12:53 AM
 
1,655 posts, read 3,393,244 times
Reputation: 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by giney12 View Post
I've read Armed Citizen for over 40 years now, and never once saw a case where the guy did it right. Luck was their savior. do you REALLY think that the NRA is going to publish the cases where the gun FAILED to defend the people, or where the gun user got locked up for numerous years ? :-) Many, many people have no IDEA what racking a pump action sounds like, dudes. To me, it sounds like someone was too stupid to have a round already chambered. the main problem with longarms is people won't HAVE them when needed. Indeed, people are too lazy to ccw a pistol around their homes, too.
Remeber your "seven P's" !!! And I think you'll be ok.
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Old 08-11-2011, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Cody, WY
10,420 posts, read 14,560,595 times
Reputation: 22017
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkdmom View Post
Remeber your "seven P's" !!! And I think you'll be ok.
??????
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Old 08-11-2011, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Itinerant
8,278 posts, read 6,255,705 times
Reputation: 6681
I read it as the old British Army Adage of
"Prior Proper Planning Prevents **** Poor Performance"
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Old 08-11-2011, 08:02 PM
 
1,655 posts, read 3,393,244 times
Reputation: 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
I read it as the old British Army Adage of
"Prior Proper Planning Prevents **** Poor Performance"
You are correct, sir !
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Old 08-11-2011, 08:20 PM
 
1,655 posts, read 3,393,244 times
Reputation: 1827
I've been shopping for a nice pistol...I think I'm going with something similar to this one. The only problem is its striker fired, but, its also in my budget. And I'm still undecided on the shotgun. I think I want a semi auto instead of pump action, now. Any feedback ?


Hi-Point 9mm Compact 3.5 Inch Barrel Black Powder Coat Finish Po
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