The Politics of Self Sufficiency (house, good, natural, pressure)

[1957TabbyCat]

There seams to be a complex web of rules and regulations on one and and no stigma at all on the other hand for living off the taxpayors.

And it is not just welfare moms gaming the system, but rather many larger corporations as well. Just stand in line at the supermarket and guess who is on foodstamps. The people with high markup items who don't seem to care about the price or health consequences often already having "free health care" or a trumped up disability complete with recreational visits to the Dr for happy pills.

In the new healthcare bill people may soon be forced to buy healthcare they do not need...at high retail and no less.


Housing is now closely regulated where the more free areas tend to be far from where jobs and paying customers are located.

Agri biz people are being attacked by the law for things such as raw milk, when just look via sites such as foodINC or sites regarding Monsanto what we are really getting fed. Some countries even stretch the facts teaching school children if they were in America they would be forced to eat flavored industrial waste.

It is like the free people who take responsiblity are now treated as enemies of society rather then vicious leaches who may infact be values customers and clients of and overclass

[SCGranny]

Tru Dat.

Wander around some of these forums, and you'll pick up on the drama queens, the pity-partiers, the "life is so awful I'm'a gonna kill myself" types, the ones who apparently were never told that <gasp> life ISN'T fair. They simply do not want to hear that the world does not owe them joy, does not owe them a living, and they feed off of each other like a pile of swarming aphids, stroking each other endlessly for sweet sappy drops of encouragement and shared, self-pitying misery.

Heaven help you if you tell them to get off their azzes and DO something for themselves. Poor babies, they CAIN'T, how DARE you, don't you understand how miserable they are? Yuh big meanie! Life is HARD!

The self-sufficient are anathema to these people; they insist that self-sufficient people are MEAN because they have NEVER suffered, NEVER been poor, NEVER been at the end of their rope, NEVER had trauma in their lives. They don't know - and don't care - that those who rely on themselves have a simple philosophy - that everyone suffers, that no one's suffering is any greater or any lesser than anyone else's, and that life goes on, we must learn to deal with it and not only survive it but overcome it. No, the drama queens do not want to hear it, they want everyone to feed them, give them wunnerful jobs, and nice purty housing, and good rich food, and everything else they have been told - and firmly believe - that they so richly deserve.

Why are they that way? Because our social and political mindset encourages them, rather than discourages them. It encourages whiny dependence instead of stoically, or even joyfully, thinking things through, making a plan, and meeting challenges. People are taught from PreK on, to whine to get what they want rather than to shut up and work for it. The politicians are more comfortable playing nanny to these types rather than leaving them alone to rise or fall on their own - because what would happen to the politicians' power if everyone, not just those who currently are self-sufficient, actually refused to be whiny and dependent and needy?

That's why the government folk don't like independent, thoughtful, planning, intelligent and reasonable people, who pull themselves up by their own efforts, and why the governments try to quash them. The politicians increase their power and income everytime some whiny constituent says, "Help me, save me, perteckt me, give me what I want!" Without the drama queens and needy, dependent types there would be no need for the politicians, and no way for them to attain more and more power over others - and the contributions they get from people like Monsanto for doing so.

Self-sufficient? OMG, that would mean that people wouldn't need the politicians any more! Horrors! Can't have that...

[Submariner]

We are set within a very intricate web indeed.

[ChrisC]

Too many people want to be stroked from cradle to grave. They want a free ride and they think everyone else should be thrilled to provide it for them. They also feel that their way of looking at things and doing things should be mandated. They are willing to trample over everyone else's liberties in order to mandate their idea of perfection. Problem is, perfection never came from the barrel of a gun or from a two-thousand-some-odd page assault on liberty. I don't think Satan himself could have written the Health Care Slavery Law any more effectively.

The only way out is to detach yourself from the Entitlement Generation. It's going to be very hard to do, but not impossible.

[ognend]

Originally Posted by SCGranny

Tru Dat.

Wander around some of these forums, and you'll pick up on the drama queens, the pity-partiers, the "life is so awful I'm'a gonna kill myself" types, the ones who apparently were never told that <gasp> life ISN'T fair. They simply do not want to hear that the world does not owe them joy, does not owe them a living, and they feed off of each other like a pile of swarming aphids, stroking each other endlessly for sweet sappy drops of encouragement and shared, self-pitying misery.

Heaven help you if you tell them to get off their azzes and DO something for themselves. Poor babies, they CAIN'T, how DARE you, don't you understand how miserable they are? Yuh big meanie! Life is HARD!

The self-sufficient are anathema to these people; they insist that self-sufficient people are MEAN because they have NEVER suffered, NEVER been poor, NEVER been at the end of their rope, NEVER had trauma in their lives. They don't know - and don't care - that those who rely on themselves have a simple philosophy - that everyone suffers, that no one's suffering is any greater or any lesser than anyone else's, and that life goes on, we must learn to deal with it and not only survive it but overcome it. No, the drama queens do not want to hear it, they want everyone to feed them, give them wunnerful jobs, and nice purty housing, and good rich food, and everything else they have been told - and firmly believe - that they so richly deserve.

Why are they that way? Because our social and political mindset encourages them, rather than discourages them. It encourages whiny dependence instead of stoically, or even joyfully, thinking things through, making a plan, and meeting challenges. People are taught from PreK on, to whine to get what they want rather than to shut up and work for it. The politicians are more comfortable playing nanny to these types rather than leaving them alone to rise or fall on their own - because what would happen to the politicians' power if everyone, not just those who currently are self-sufficient, actually refused to be whiny and dependent and needy?

That's why the government folk don't like independent, thoughtful, planning, intelligent and reasonable people, who pull themselves up by their own efforts, and why the governments try to quash them. The politicians increase their power and income everytime some whiny constituent says, "Help me, save me, perteckt me, give me what I want!" Without the drama queens and needy, dependent types there would be no need for the politicians, and no way for them to attain more and more power over others - and the contributions they get from people like Monsanto for doing so.

Self-sufficient? OMG, that would mean that people wouldn't need the politicians any more! Horrors! Can't have that...

Good Lord, talk about self-righteousness and thinking highly of yourself. Let's not write odes and poems about this. It is what it is, some people are more independent and some less, nothing wrong with that, there are all sorts of folks out there. In your world, it is a pretty dry existence, looks like.

I like to be self-sufficient but I also understand that humans are social creatures, they like to congregate, help each other and finally, they are not all equal. Yes, there will be folks who are fierce about DIY and there are folks who just are not made that way - the latter have to pay for every service and article through their nose. Then there are folks who come from all sorts of backgrounds and life was not fair to them from the get-go. For someone who touts that life is not fair you sure are full of yourself pissing down on everyone who was not dealt a fair hand. Should everyone try hard to be self-sufficient? Sure. Is everyone going to be? NO.

Yes, there are folks who come up from the gutter and beat all odds - but the fact that we talk about them in such a way makes the special, it is NOT the norm, it is an exception.

I am not advocating freeloading but I am also not advocating the other end. There has to be a middle for a (large) country to function. Unfortunately all you see these days are the extremes.

OD

[Nor'Eastah]

Play nice, kiddos, or this thread will end up on the politics forum, just like that other recent one!

[MTSilvertip]

I should listen to my better reason and stay way far away from this thread, but I rarely listen to my own logic.

While I agree not all folks have the ability or the drive to be self sufficent, I also believe that the current nanny state mentality has encouraged those who would milk the system instead of work for their living.

There is a strong self reliant strain in this state, for many reasons. Living in most areas of this state you are far removed from many services so you have to learn to change your own flat tire, plow your own road, pack a kit to keep alive when you travel, and the social services so many rely on simply aren't there are not funded at the level that would promote living that lifestyle.

You are expected to help your extended family and friends, if someone has a disaster like a house fire or unexpected illness, there are benefits put on in the towns and folks who don't even know the effected people will gladly chip in time and money to help them. We pull together as a community without depending on washington to do it for us.

We don't have a lot of major metropolitan areas, our biggest city is only around 110,000 people.

While there is a component that works the system instead of working for a wage, Montana holds the title of folks with multiple jobs. Because natural resourse work has been shut down by the courts, the high paying jobs simply don't exist, so folks here usually work at least 2 low paying jobs to make ends meet.

There are people who cannot provide for themselves either from birth defects, accidents or age. I have no problem donating food, work, or even paying tax to provide for them. I do have a problem providing for those able bodied who refuse to work.
For those who will put in time at their job and still need some help, I have no problem with donating to food banks so they can reduce their food bills. I have no problem donating to heating assistance for the elderly on fixed incomes, I do have a problem with those who demand all services be provided for them at my expense.

I don't believe that everyone can live a self reliant livestyle, and they shouldn't be forced to, but there is now no incentive for some to provide anything for themselves because the government will take from me to give to them so they don't have to worry about meeting a mortgage, paying for the doctor, buying food or heat as it is provided by the government.

If metropolitan areas would provide means for people to grow a garden as has been done in several areas, it gives those without the resources to buy property the chance to still suppliment their diet without increased cost to the taxpayer.

I was stationed in Eastern Europe for a while and I was really impressed with the way the people worked around the government to provide for themselves. They had gardens dug in the barrow pits beside the roads, or worked marginal land outside city limits and had small shacks on the garden to sleep in to protect their harvest. They would walk a mile or more to go and work their garden. That is self sufficency. Making do with what you have, not crying about what you deserve.

I don't belive on a personal level it is politics, but the level of drive and ability that determine how successful anybody can be. Politics only comes in when politicians create a situation where folks become dependent on their programs, and will vote for those who will expand or protect those programs. The human animal is capible of amazing feats, living off the government stifles the desire to better oneself.

Just my 2 cents.

[2018]

MTSilvertip: Can't give you any more reputation right now, but great post! +1

[AK-Cathy]

I was staying away as well but had to stop in to say well done to MTSilvertip for their common sense post. Thinking and compassion. Proper.

[ognend]

Originally Posted by MTSilvertip

I should listen to my better reason and stay way far away from this thread, but I rarely listen to my own logic.

While I agree not all folks have the ability or the drive to be self sufficent, I also believe that the current nanny state mentality has encouraged those who would milk the system instead of work for their living.

There is a strong self reliant strain in this state, for many reasons. Living in most areas of this state you are far removed from many services so you have to learn to change your own flat tire, plow your own road, pack a kit to keep alive when you travel, and the social services so many rely on simply aren't there are not funded at the level that would promote living that lifestyle.

You are expected to help your extended family and friends, if someone has a disaster like a house fire or unexpected illness, there are benefits put on in the towns and folks who don't even know the effected people will gladly chip in time and money to help them. We pull together as a community without depending on washington to do it for us.

We don't have a lot of major metropolitan areas, our biggest city is only around 110,000 people.

While there is a component that works the system instead of working for a wage, Montana holds the title of folks with multiple jobs. Because natural resourse work has been shut down by the courts, the high paying jobs simply don't exist, so folks here usually work at least 2 low paying jobs to make ends meet.

There are people who cannot provide for themselves either from birth defects, accidents or age. I have no problem donating food, work, or even paying tax to provide for them. I do have a problem providing for those able bodied who refuse to work.
For those who will put in time at their job and still need some help, I have no problem with donating to food banks so they can reduce their food bills. I have no problem donating to heating assistance for the elderly on fixed incomes, I do have a problem with those who demand all services be provided for them at my expense.

I don't believe that everyone can live a self reliant livestyle, and they shouldn't be forced to, but there is now no incentive for some to provide anything for themselves because the government will take from me to give to them so they don't have to worry about meeting a mortgage, paying for the doctor, buying food or heat as it is provided by the government.

If metropolitan areas would provide means for people to grow a garden as has been done in several areas, it gives those without the resources to buy property the chance to still suppliment their diet without increased cost to the taxpayer.

I was stationed in Eastern Europe for a while and I was really impressed with the way the people worked around the government to provide for themselves. They had gardens dug in the barrow pits beside the roads, or worked marginal land outside city limits and had small shacks on the garden to sleep in to protect their harvest. They would walk a mile or more to go and work their garden. That is self sufficency. Making do with what you have, not crying about what you deserve.

I don't belive on a personal level it is politics, but the level of drive and ability that determine how successful anybody can be. Politics only comes in when politicians create a situation where folks become dependent on their programs, and will vote for those who will expand or protect those programs. The human animal is capible of amazing feats, living off the government stifles the desire to better oneself.

Just my 2 cents.

I agree with you on all of the above, I just reacted to the ode and prose someone wrote that sounded condescending.

A comment on Eastern Europe (since I come from there): most people you describe held full-time government jobs and most did not do them efficiently since they were too tired from digging in the make-shift garden in the evenings, they preferred sleeping on their real jobs. Self-sufficiency there was defined much different than here

I have a problem with the other end of the spectrum, the cruel, "squash and destroy everyone who is not as fiercely self-sufficient as I am" attitude. This country's economy is now largely a service economy. It is service because most of the money generated is from services to people who either a) don't know how to do something, b) can't do it for lack of time or c) choose not to do it since they value their free time in a different manner.

When the time comes where the measure of self-sufficiency is having two-three jobs to just survive, that's not a nice place to be. You know (and this maybe a cultural difference), but a lot of people don't think that working yourself 80 hours a week to make ends meet is a good way to live life. Services paid for by taxes are generally there to make the lives easier for the majority of people and help them pursue their betterment (of lifestyle, maybe go back to school, learn something new, have time to spend with the family etc.). I don't think the current system that forces a working mother to go back to work after just delivering her baby or forcing parents to work 2-3 jobs just to put food on the table (and never see their children) is a good one either. Again, we need a middle. Not too far left so that people have no incentive to work but not too far right where 1% of the population owns as much as 150 million of the rest of us who have to have two jobs to survive.

The above maybe worked in the 1920s, not today. But, in the 1920s the population was largely immobile, uneducated and children spent the day working next to their parents (so the problem of parenting and family nucleus was largely solved).

I grew up in socialism, my parents both worked honestly but my mom was home by 4 o'clock and my dad by 6 o'clock. I was in school most of the day so we always had lunch and dinner together and their parenting was a non issue. My mom was rarely MADE (and I say MADE since it is not really a choice here) to do overtime and we had 90% of our weekends together. My Dad worked overtime but he loved work, it was a choice, by the way overtime wasn't paid over there. We had free healthcare so my parents weren't under stress or pressure or did not live in fear that I would get sick and die because they could not afford basic care (they were both middle-class professionals by the way, lawyer and nurse). Overall, my parents were happy and we were happy and stable, none of that "I grew up barely seeing my Mom and Dad since they were working two jobs to put shoes on us but hey, they were happy since they were self-reliant" story.

There has to be a middle.

My $.02
OD