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Old 08-30-2011, 10:21 PM
 
889 posts, read 430,863 times
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I prefer a revolver. A lot fewer parts to break or malfunction
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Old 08-31-2011, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Alaska
2,270 posts, read 1,468,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
Personally I won't start to worry about TSHTF until I see food riots by white people in the US.

I'd say a Glock 9mm for a pistol. Glocks are the most reliable, and work perfectly without tweaking right out of the box. I think you can still get very cheap mil surplus cases of 9mm for practice, and then some of the more expensive self-defense rounds for real. See if you can find a shooting range that lets you rent out various guns to see which suits you best.
CAVEAT: Never, I repeat NEVER, use a load in SD that you have not already used it on a paper target at least 100 rounds worth. Not all ammunition feeds the same, is as reliable as the next round, has the same snap in recoil, or hits in the same place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
If a 12 gauge shotgun using 00 buckshot has too much recoil for you as a woman, then a 20 gauge might be more suitable. Of course it's much easier to buy a long gun than a pistol in terms of rules and regulations.
Where did you pick up an idea that a 12 gauge might be too much? Or is it because she's a member of the fairer sex, and thus shouldn't be playing with a 12 gauge? Or more pertinently that a 20 gauge has less recoil than a 12 gauge. That is frankly crap, it's equally crap to say they have more (that's like saying a Corvette will go faster than a Porsche because it's got a bigger engine, or a Porsche will go faster than a Corvette because it has a turbocharger). Recoil in any weapon has little to do with the caliber, and everything to do with the round fired the mass of the gun used, and any devices used to reduce recoil (porting, muzzle brake, action etc.).
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Old 08-31-2011, 02:29 PM
Status: " All Shall Be Well; And All Manner of Things Shall Be Well" (set 11 days ago)
 
Location: Hunkering down atop Shasta
6,820 posts, read 6,538,843 times
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I got the idea from women who have said so. They do tend to be lighter and have less upper body strength, right? Not ALL of them, but in a generalized statistical sense. And all other things being equal, a 20 gauge has somewhat less recoil than a 12 gauge.

Notice that I said IF it has too much recoil. Not "women should always prefer a 20 gauge".

If a 20 gauge still kicks to hard for a particular person, maybe someone with brittle bones, osteoporosis - that person could go even smaller to a .410, just as the older woman on the video did. Even that will keep the bad guys away.
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Old 08-31-2011, 03:03 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
6,716 posts, read 5,656,746 times
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There is something to be said about the confidence level you have when shooting a given gauge or caliber of any firearm. Personally, I generally tend to favor smaller caliber and less recoil. That's just me. It's a personal thing. I certainly feel more comfortable shooting a .410 than I do a 12 gauge. I'd doubt I'm the only one, though. I'd conjecture that, in general, a confident shooter with a .410 is going to be more effective than an uncomfortable shooter shooting a 12 gauge.

I tend to shoot better and more effectively with a .32 magnum as opposed to a .357 magnum, a .223 (or .30 carbine) as opposed to a .30-06, a .410 as opposed to a 12 gauge. I don't really see this as a liability because they are all effective if used within their intended parameters. Otherwise, they wouldn't even be around.
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Old 08-31-2011, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Alaska
2,270 posts, read 1,468,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
And all other things being equal, a 20 gauge has somewhat less recoil than a 12 gauge.
That's an assumption...

The problem is all things can never be equal

Here's some examples pulled from Chuck Hawks

Gun weight 20 gauge 6.5 lbs, 12 gauge 7.5lbs

20 gauge, 2.75" (1oz shot at 1220fps) 21.0 ft-lb recoil
12 gauge, 2.75" (1oz shot at 1180fps) 17.3 ft-lb recoil

20 gauge, 2.75" (1 1/8oz shot at 1175fps) 25.0 ft-lb recoil
12 gauge, 2.75" (1 1/8oz shot at 1200fps) 23.0 ft-lb recoil

However they're not equal (although as close as can be achieved commercially), the muzzle velocities are different, and one weighs 6.5lbs the 20 gauge, vs. the 7.5lbs 12 gauge.

Does this prove a 20 gauge has MORE recoil than a 12? No,
Also this is a raw recoil measurement that doesn't take into account perceived recoil the 12 gauge may be sharper or softer, but that could vary according to the shooter and their prior expectations, which of these two has less overall measured recoil? in both cases the 12 gauge, however it's 1lb heavier which could account for the difference, and in the 1oz load it has a 40 fps lower muzzle velocity, however in 1 1/8oz it has 25fps higher MV and still lower recoil.

There's only one way to find out, shoot them both and take the one that's more comfortable.
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Old 09-01-2011, 02:02 PM
 
Location: FROM Dixie, but IN SoCal
3,214 posts, read 2,496,754 times
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Background: I'm 6 feet tall, weigh 250 or so lbs, have a 51-inch chest and a 42-inch waist. In other words I'm basically built like a tall fireplug, which makes me one heckuva recoil buffer.

Now, with that said, I suspect the core issue is a balance between what I call "recoil tolerance" [or its opposite, "recoil sensitivity"] on one side, and its influence on "perceived recoil" on the other. The lower the recoil tolerance, the greater the perceived recoil from any particular firearm. This makes the 12ga/20ga selection choice -- among others -- an extremely personal matter. This is because so many things influence the equation.

Let's take the discussion away from shotguns for a moment. I'm a Cowboy Action Shooter, including long-range (out to 500 yards or so). Though its fairly obvious that the .38-55 cartridge SHOULD produce less recoil than the .45-70 cartridge, I find that the "perceived recoil" of my .45-70 caliber Remington Rolling Block rifle is more tolerable than the "perceived recoil" of my .38-55 caliber H&R 1871 Handi-Rifle. Now, to confuse the issue, and using the same exact ammunition I used above, the "perceived recoil" of my .38-55 caliber Marlin 336 Cowboy rifle is more tolerable than the perceived recoil of my .45-70 caliber Marlin 1895 Cowboy rifle.

This should make it fairly obvious that the firearm's caliber/gauge is ONLY ONE of many factors. In my case the other factors seem to include the (1) firearm weight, (2) barrel length, and (3) dimensions of the buttplate. They all have a significant influence on "perceived recoil". For non-Cowboy shotguns this should also include the presence, and type, of one or more recoil pads.

Clear as mud, right?

Last edited by Nighteyes; 09-01-2011 at 02:10 PM..
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Old 09-01-2011, 07:49 PM
 
19,127 posts, read 11,611,629 times
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I see as the basket verus the oak.

I am almost 6 feet tall, weigh 155, and my wife is about that size, slightly shorter and less heavy. She can soak up a mil surplus 8mm rnd easy in a K-98. IMO that K-98 kicks harder than my 12ga's.

We sway like the basket, rather than take a shock like a oak.

Cheaper shot guns including some 20's kick like 2 mules because they are not built right. The Ergonomics is all off. I have personally experienced some nasty kicking 20's.

Some people have the idea to hold a shotgun off the shoulder, instead of holding it in snug. That will hurt.

There is one Musket load i don't like a whole lot. That's (2) .735 round ball with (9) .357 cal round ball between them on top of 80 grains of FFg powda'. But to use that load one must be in a real mean disposition in the first place.
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Old 09-01-2011, 07:54 PM
 
Location: earth?
7,290 posts, read 5,312,589 times
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This is all so fear-based . . . I personally believe structures are disintegrating and things are changing to make way for a more peaceful Earth experience - it is talked about as a metaphysical "ascension" (not the literal end-of-the-world) but a raising of vibrations . . .those who live in fear will continue to live in fear . . .and those who don't will experience a "new Earth."

It's groovy!

I don't honestly know how people can stand to be so freaked out all of the time!!!! Let it go . . .it's going to be ok!
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Old 09-01-2011, 07:57 PM
 
19,127 posts, read 11,611,629 times
Reputation: 7123
Yeah, all these missing roads and bridges in New England are just figments of our collective imaginations huh? It's just a good thing i didn't want to go to Canada anyway, or NJ for that matter.

Last edited by Mac_Muz; 09-01-2011 at 08:53 PM..
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Old 09-01-2011, 08:01 PM
 
1,337 posts, read 429,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imcurious View Post
This is all so fear-based . . . I personally believe structures are disintegrating and things are changing to make way for a more peaceful Earth experience - it talked about as a metaphysical "ascension" (not the literal end-of-the-world) but a raising of vibrations . . .those who live in fear will continue to live in fear . . .and those who don't will experience a "new Earth."

It's groovy!

I don't honestly know how people can stand to be so freaked out all of the time!!!! Let it go . . .it's going to be ok!
I don't really put much stock in the "end of days" stuff, but I see no reason to really think everyone should view it as being all hunkey-dory, either. If by "okay," what we really mean is that people being the adaptive creatures that we are, we simply learn to put up with more, and more crap, such that what would be insufferable at some past point, now becomes normal and groovy, or at least tolerable.... then yeah, I suppose everything will be alright.

Gradually raise the temperature in pot and maybe the frog won't be so inclined to hop out... or even if it does come to the realization at some point, it may already bee too late for him. Raise the temperature in the pot quickly enough, and he might just notice it and scramble to get out. Incrementalism in-action, and we're all part of this incrementalist grande experiment.

Most people will be okay, and there will probably never be a human-induced "end of days" precisely because most have become accustomed to these incrementalist changes. Not everyone is so casual about it, though.
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